Showroom2 Voting

jemc · Post by **jemc** » 12 Feb 2005, 13:09

i vote the new style. but nothing shouldn't change in voting. but i'm affraid most of us did it all wrong.

^Sparco^ · Post by **^Sparco^** » 12 Feb 2005, 13:36

gucci wrote:So its a crime if in your personal opinion and your own judgement and your own taste to rate all the awesome cars that catches your eye a 10? Abit unfair I think (...)

No it is not a crime, but it happens the same for the opposite. Is it a crime to rate all the cars you hate a 1, and dont vote the good cars??? The guy who acts like that is considered a downvoter

We should rate random cars, not only those we love. Follow the tips I posted yesterday, and vote 3-4 random cars at day. This takes 1minute. Is it that difficult?

jemc wrote:ok, yesterday i started to vote more fair. i saw some guy's car in the random picture thingy and then rated hiw whole garage. my votes were betwen 6-10. i used to rate 8-10 because i made the same mistake as many guys and chicks on this site. (...)

Cool.

Now You mustnt be shy and start using the 1-5 aswell

master m · Post by **master m** » 12 Feb 2005, 13:39

I agree with the new rules, but I DON'T want all my votes deleted.

It took me a long time to get all of my votes and I don't want to lose them

jemc · Post by **jemc** » 12 Feb 2005, 13:57

^Sparco^ wrote:Now You mustnt be shy and start using the 1-5 aswell

none of the cars deserved that.

oh yeah, now i remember...there was one horrible Mustang. it got a 2 from me, because the parts were ok.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 12 Feb 2005, 14:11

Hmm, just thinking, THIS upvoting / downvoting only happened after the Showroom for NFSU2 was officially opened! Have this ever happened to NFSU1 showroom before? 'Cos I never seen this case this big as before compared to NFSU1 Showroom.

jemc · Post by **jemc** » 12 Feb 2005, 14:31

i belive there wasn't much upvoting. but downvoting was in the sr1 as it is in sr2

Felixkissa · Post by **Felixkissa** » 12 Feb 2005, 17:54

IMO now that there's a new voting system, all the ratings should be reseted(all votes deleted) ASAP, coz now there's only gonna be mixed up situations untill that's done.

StoneBullet · Post by **StoneBullet** » 12 Feb 2005, 19:05

I think it got to the stage where you were "afraid" to vote honestly. I mean if you vote low on a particular car them a lot of the time the author of that car would come after you so to speak. This in itself means that a lot of the uglier cars were not getting votes.

I think that the presentions of the cars are great, but sometimes the look of a car can be enhanced. I for one don't like taking screens in the garage, but other users make them look great. This in itself adds to the look of the car and may earn the author another point or two.

Also I am in favour of re-setting the votes, but this means that all my previous votes and comments would be for nothing and I'm not sure I can be bothered to go through it all again. I still can't see it solving the problems here, but it will certanly help.

patrickman · Post by **patrickman** » 12 Feb 2005, 19:06

erase all my votes to please then

Post by **SuperRacer** » 12 Feb 2005, 19:44

StoneBullet wrote:I think it got to the stage where you were "afraid" to vote honestly. I mean if you vote low on a particular car them a lot of the time the author of that car would come after you so to speak.

That's why I think all the votes should be deleted..

vellu · Post by **vellu** » 12 Feb 2005, 19:47

Let's reset, and be done with it...

But as far as comments go; if possible could there be a mark of sorts in comments sections showing pre and post reset comments?

Or perhaps reset the comments too? Since all rates will have to be redone, why not the comments aswell.

^Sparco^ · Post by **^Sparco^** » 12 Feb 2005, 20:06

I have voted fairly 2000 rides... and won't do it again LOL.

I honestly dont get it. Will you rate differently now?
I mean: if you have voted the car X with 10 points... will you give it a 6 this time?

I assume ppl tastes have not changed suddenly.

Remove the votes of upvoters & downvoters, ask people for vote all kind of rides (not only those they love) and it is done.

Another suggestion: Make people read my tutorial before entering the showroom (only once, like the registration rules etc.)

patrickman · Post by **patrickman** » 12 Feb 2005, 21:08

indeed i think all votes should be resetted, because people who have readed the new rule are going to vote less high, as i do 2, and if all the votes are reseted, there wont be more friend policiy *i hope* and more cars have chance of hitting the best rated car or anything, so people just go to vote average!

and when does the poll stop and the needed actions are going to be taken i want to know?

but i think this is a fair idea!

and i must agree with vellu about the comments being resetted 2!

Silenza84 · Post by **Silenza84** » 12 Feb 2005, 21:53

I strongly recognize and agree what people like chimpzrl, hagans and jemc said in this topic. I allready used to vote the way like it's hopefully gonna be now. Most people didn't appreciate that from me. People got mad and I had to explain many things (read some of my comments). That's not good for your image. I had the risk of getting mad people calling me a downvoter by every vote I gave. After having to explain things many times, it isn't fun anymore. It seemed like I was the only one voting this way.

I'm glad I am not the only one who thinks about the way of voting like I do. Bojan did a great job of bringing this subject to all the users. I agree for 100% what he said, and hope the new rules will soon be applied.

Sir Ibi · Post by **Sir Ibi** » 12 Feb 2005, 22:06

I kinda agree with Gucci there, but still i think this modifide voting sceme is a huge improvement. Mainly becasue you guys have added a small comment near the ratings, so people will know what to vote. Speaking from experience, the votes i gave are too high.

Before this I would never had rated a car 6 or a 7, cause i thought i would be downvoting, but now i feel more confident to give a fairer vote to cars. This is definetly an improvment, nice work Bojan, 10 points. Oh sorry force of habit....

ViperJay · Post by **ViperJay** » 12 Feb 2005, 23:16

well, things are like this for me: I use to vote with a lot of 10s & 9s, some 8s or 7s, and just a few time with 6s (I don't remember if I gave some lower rating apart the ugly cars). This more because I check the most garages I already know and I prefer...yeah, I know it's not fair, but I've a bad connection and rating and commenting a car (cause I always leave a comment when rating a car) take me not less than 1min30sec - 2min...yeah, it's a shame!!!
I try to check all garages by people who had a look at mine, but I'm still late for this (and always more) because of the same problem.
Btw, I'll be a bit sad to give a car some bad rating like a 3 or 4, cause I don't want to hurt someone who spent time to make a car the way he thinks it's good saying that it's ugly...so often I don't r&c this kind of rides.
Ok, I promise...I'll improve my rating method cause your right with this new "rules"
Btw, I recognize that giving only high votes is quite like giving no votes

...c ya

Sweet-16 · Post by **Sweet-16** » 13 Feb 2005, 05:37

well from my point of veiw this new voting plan is basically telling us how we should vote instead of letting us have an opinion of our own for cars. to me i give votes between the range of 7-10. cause the majority, about 75% are decent cars. the other 15% can be quite hideous, yes, but each person has his or her own taste in what they like and don't like. like i said before though, no one should have to be told how to vote for a car cause it ruins the point of having an opinon.

Supra-man · Post by **Supra-man** » 13 Feb 2005, 09:24

but most of the people dont vote fairly, this kinda makes them vote fair.

Felixkissa · Post by **Felixkissa** » 13 Feb 2005, 14:27

I like to know what's the timetable here, coz I'm not going to vote anything untill there's somekind of decision made. So moderators???

edit: That was fast, let's go R&C...

jemc · Post by **jemc** » 13 Feb 2005, 14:49

i see you deleted the scores. you should deleted all the comments, too

Dragster · Post by **Dragster** » 13 Feb 2005, 23:16

No way! Only votes please!

After a couple of hours, I figured out the voteremoval was the only right solution! Me [THE upvoter] tells that

Great job Bojan, you're really doing your best! I know I totally changed my rating system!

s@ke · Post by **s@ke** » 18 Feb 2005, 09:02

While i can understand your views on this bojan, I highly disagree with the method of controling the voting in this manner, (yes controling) you are effectivly using a threat (vote 10 or 1 to often(concurrently) and your votes are null and/or garage removed),

To me this is as bad as a gastapo bs (hanging chad's anyone) that tells me my vote was incorrect or improper.

Your intentions are good to be sure, but this method of saying you "MUST" vote for random cars even ones you dont care to vote for takes away the freedom of choice and opinion, i myself rarely vote unless it honestly makes me go wow. that deserves my time (on 56k mind you) to take a closer look vote and give my input, but saying that the way i "Choose" to vote as a free human on the internet is incorrect when im simply voting for the cars i enjoy voting for and not thos i dont is just wrong.

you have no right to tell anyone there opinion or voting method is wrong if they are not clearly down or upvoting with malic or clan-relations.

have you checked peoples voting timelines?, aka do they vote 100 10's in a week or over the place of a few months.

I highly doubt you have done this, as it would take a rather long look at your database, so you cant say for sure this person is truly upvoting, or just voting for cars he wishes to over time.

while upvoting/downvoting is a problem that im not stupid enuff to think that i can solve, this method you have chosen is going to influence alot of random 5/6's not get rid of the problem, just mask it.

Because to mask there upvoting/teamvoting, they can simply vote a 10, then 5/6/7/4 then another 10 without any thought givin to the votes, and that makes it even worse then it is.

not to even go into the implications of 5 or 6 people just happening to be on and really like a car so they all vote 8/9/10's for it, would you call them or track them down to be sure they wernt clan-voting, or upvoting, or just a random gathering of like minded people who may not even know eachother.

To me the only way this could work is if you track every members voting habits by logins and ratios of votes per day and that value, to see if they are truly up/downvoting or just voting for cars they like over time or vice versa.

Sorry to be harsh, but im honestly sick to death of all this type of crap, i see it enuff in my day to day life and in the world already.

Post by **Bojan** » 18 Feb 2005, 09:25

I guess you probably meant us, the staff of NFSUnlimited.net in your post.

I need to add here that you do not see the background here. There was a LOT of people where over 50% of their votes were a 10. And we're not talking about a total of 10 votes, but rather over a hundred! In your case where you just give out 10s to the cars that you think are really good, that's not a problem. We always check which cars the 10s are given to. And if it's a small amount of votes given to cars from completely different people, it's not a problem.

But a problem was, when spot someone with all 10 votes, go to his garage, notice that he's in a team, then check who he gave the 10s to and notice it's all fellow teammembers, then it's a bit different.
Result was, as I wrote in the first post of this thread, appalling.

The biggest mistake that we made in this showrom was that when we started removing downvoters, we left the upvoters alone and this made the showroom lean to the upvoting side. If I think back now I came to a conclusion that votes shouldn't have been moderated at all - this would keep the tops changing all the time.
But since that is not the case, and we got all the downvoters mostly covered, we need to keep the upvoters under controll as well. This was the best solution we've come up with so far and it will stay until something better is thought up of.

Once again, if you're not an upvoter with a huge amount of 10 votes, you've got nothing to fear.

Oh and you can't beleive how sick of all this I am.
And I bet the other staff members are too.

s@ke · Post by **s@ke** » 18 Feb 2005, 09:37

(yes i corrected my post it was ment for you, i mistyped as i was rather flustered)

But yes , i see what you mean my question however is are you also looking at the timeline for this 10 votes to total votes ratio?, because im sure many people vote as i do (being tought if you dont have anything good to say, dont say anything at all) and with a long term member you could have there total votes to 10 votes ratio upwards of 75+% due to them gathering over time.

That is my worry, is people to casualy vote being punished for not taking time to vote for cars they choose not to vote on.

and in the end my other worry also stands, as this will ultimatly mask votes, as people will just make new accounts if need be to pump the votes up, or vote without effort for fear of being targeted for to many low or high votes.

Post by **Bojan** » 18 Feb 2005, 11:43

Don't worry, those with a small amount of high votes given to random people will not lose their votes or get banned.

And when I thought up of this solution I did have in mind that some people might cheat their voting structure by giving random users very low scores, but this will only improve their percentage for votes, their votes stay and we can always see who voted what. And that will reveal if someone is an upvoter or not.
You can give low votes to whoever you like, but if you rated all your fellow teammembers cars' a 10, you will be considered as an upvoter.

Looking at the results so far, I must say that they're quite positive.
The average rating has lowered quite a bit.

Showroom2 Voting

new votingrules