The New/Prototype/Concept Car Topic

xHaZxMaTx · Post by **xHaZxMaTx** » 15 Jul 2005, 19:32

Aren't all cars at one point in their life a concept car?

Jopuma · Post by **Jopuma** » 15 Jul 2005, 20:21

Yes all cars are concepts that work, but some concept cars don't work. Like the Scion t2B. That's disgusting.

PSZeTa · Post by **PSZeTa** » 16 Jul 2005, 09:56

4.5 seconds for the FQ400 Stig?

I thought it was 3.5..

master m · Post by **master m** » 16 Jul 2005, 14:15

PSZeTa wrote:4.5 seconds for the FQ400 Stig?

I thought it was 3.5..

you're right, it's 3.5s according to Mitsubishi

Lamborghini Gives Limited Green Light to Concept S

Lamborghini will be building a new vehicle based on its Concept S, but will limit numbers to no more than 80 or 90, according to Automotive News Europe.

Though intended more as a demonstration of what could be done with the upcoming roadster version of the Gallardo,

the Concept S proved to be such a hit with Lambo enthusiasts the company has decided to put the vehicle into production.

The company is still expected to go forward with a separate Gallardo Roadster, which could be named "Spyder"

when it debuts at the Frankfurt auto show in September.
The Concept S originated in Centro Stile Lamborghini at the company's headquarters in Sant' Agata Bolognese,

with primary responsibility going to the company's design chief, Luc Donckerwolke.

The production model will retain its "saute-vent," which divides the cockpit into two distinct sections,

an electronically controlled retractable rearview mirror mounted in the center console, and the lack of a proper roof.

source: http://www.fastdrive.org/lamborghini/la ... inal_1.php

Post by **TheStig** » 16 Jul 2005, 17:07

sorry, I thought it was abit slow...

but you are completely right... even more impressive

bashderq · Post by **bashderq** » 16 Jul 2005, 17:38

master m wrote:The production model will retain its "saute-vent," which divides the cockpit into two distinct sections

the 1st couple that does manage to conduct a successful conversation in this car will automatically each win a set of lamborghini stamped ear muffers, just to further ensure u cant have another conversation

Hecubus · Post by **Hecubus** » 16 Jul 2005, 23:32

TheStig wrote:
boganbusman wrote:Dude that is exactly everything that I wanted to say.

Except for maybe the last phrase, because that will probably start another argument (but I agree)

I never thought I'd see the day when Stig got owned
those are your opinions and you are entiteld to it... but that doesn't make it right

there is nowhere I said it is a bad car but the Charger simply doesn't exel in anything,
IMO the Charger should have died a legend. this isn't really a car that can follow in it's footsteps

and Hebucus, you forgot to mention that on a track (in the right gear) it can keep up/beat a Murcialago )
and the drag against a Focus Stationwagon was at 30 mph startspeed.

ofcourse the EVO has it bad sites (huge turbo lag and a absurd big turning circle wich together makes it pretty useless for normal use) but that doesn't make it less impressive that they can get a car to handle better then before and can keep up with V12 supercars on a track and all that with such a small engine... and warenty

but I think it is useless to continue this discussion...

your eighter like it or you don't (I belong to the last catagory)

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the significance of the FQ400's preformance. At the same time, I'm just pointing out that it's not THAT impressive, given that it's clear where the power comes from (and to that extent, Bogan, that's what I meant that there is no replacement for displacement - boost works well to a point). Of course, there's no way I could possibly justify buying an FQ400, even if (and these are all big points), I had the money, the Evo was sold in Canada, and the FQ400's weren't all sold out. Because, as much as what it does is impressive on paper, what exactly is the point? The FQ400 is nothing more that an engineering exercise.

As for the Charger, it shows just how unfamiliar with American cars you are, Stig. The Charger didn't die a legend. It kind of faded in to obscurity, with the name being attached to a bloated, restricted luxo-coupe, and then a FWD four-cylinder hatchback. IMO, although the new Charger won't be the legend that the second-generation Charger was, it's better than any other Charger, ever, and, well, although there may be issues with the car, being deserving of the name isn't one of them. And, I'd say it does a decent job of excelling. The LX cars continue to be great value for the money. The Charger SRT-8 comes pretty close to competeing with Benz's own AMG E55, but for a hell of a lot less money (it's roomier, to boot). Furthermore, it's the cheapest V8 RWD sedan available (well, the regular RT). Besides, it's only 100lbs more than the doodiehead-mobile Murcieliago.

Drewb99 · Post by **Drewb99** » 16 Jul 2005, 23:46

master m wrote:
PSZeTa wrote:4.5 seconds for the FQ400 Stig?

I thought it was 3.5..
you're right, it's 3.5s according to Mitsubishi

Lamborghini Gives Limited Green Light to Concept S

Lamborghini will be building a new vehicle based on its Concept S, but will limit numbers to no more than 80 or 90, according to Automotive News Europe.

Though intended more as a demonstration of what could be done with the upcoming roadster version of the Gallardo,

the Concept S proved to be such a hit with Lambo enthusiasts the company has decided to put the vehicle into production.

F'ING METAL.

Post by **TheStig** » 17 Jul 2005, 04:37

Hecubus wrote: As for the Charger, it shows just how unfamiliar with American cars you are, Stig. The Charger didn't die a legend.

let me refrase.. it should have died as a legend..!

Hecubus wrote: The Charger SRT-8 comes pretty close to competeing with Benz's own AMG E55, but for a hell of a lot less money (it's roomier, to boot).

that is a damn nice frase... really it can ALMOST compete with a AMG E55... in other words it can't!
I seriously doubt it is roomier...maybe it's total size is bigger but with most american cars they are filled with USELESS space! americans should learn that BIGGER isn't always better! (and yes I know you are a canadien!)
and maybe in performance it comes pretty close to competing with a E55 but that is it.. in style or luxury it it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind. cause other thing american car designers should learn is that plastic is NOT a luxury product.. and using recycled wheeliebins is not good for a dashboard!
in other words the merc is a complete difirent league!

Hecubus wrote: Furthermore, it's the cheapest V8 RWD sedan available (well, the regular RT). Besides, it's only 100lbs more than the doodiehead-mobile Murcieliago.

alteast the wankermobile is made by people who have style and know how to build a good looking car!
cause american do a weewee poor job at that. the only good looking car was a car is from days gone by... (the GT40)
and I don't know if you noticed but the Murcialago isn't a lightweight you know...

one more thing it is correct that I don't know much about american cars... and I don't really feel the urge to even try to know a little more about them, I know what I have seen and driven. I been to the US a few times and rented a cars there (pontiac, ford) and I worked for a ford dealer for a while and driven a few US fords and mercurys and lincolns there
(the funny thing is the only buyers for the US fords/mercury that are sold here where Americans that are stationed here (military personel)
and what suprised me that even when they look big.. the space inside like trunkspace isn't impressive... and they all got the luxury plastic interiour

but he that's just me

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 17 Jul 2005, 05:08

Stig, I think you're missing the main point here.

MONEY.

American cars will always be 'not as good' as European and Japanese cars, but they will always be better value for money.

btw, last time I sat in a Merc I was very disappointed. The plastic felt cheap (like american cars) and many of the fittings were loose and tacky. Definitely NOT good value for money imo.

xHaZxMaTx · Post by **xHaZxMaTx** » 17 Jul 2005, 05:17

Are you serious? What year was it? I sat in a Mercedez at the car lot we have here in town and it was soooo nice!!!! BTW, 'foreign' cars are not generally more expensive that domestic ars.

But they sure are a h*ll of a lot better.

Post by **TheStig** » 17 Jul 2005, 05:21

I know what the main point is.but for me a american car isn't cheap exept ford cause they have a special line of european cars wich has nothing similar with the US cars.. ok we got the focus and Fusion (but both in a difirent version and looks)
and Mercedes isn't my personal german favorite also.. they don't have really good quality in the lower segment.. and the higher class cars like the S class it ridiculous expensive also.
I prefer Audi and BMW in the lower and middle class.

here in Europe the prices of a german/swedish car are relative low compared with for instance the US.
I know that my uncle who lives in Seattle buys his volvo's in Sweden and ships them to the US himself, cause it is cheaper to get it yourself then to buy it at the dealer

but here cars from the US are pretty expensive.

and I still don't know why Chevrolet is trying to establish itself here in europe with luxury cars while they are no match with german engering and heratige.
they got abit of grip in the european market cause they bought Deawoo and rebadged all deawoos into chevy's. (but then again... deawoo wasn't a big succes eighter.. cause the cars looked crap and where crap. and a gold logo isn't helping much)

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 17 Jul 2005, 05:23

Yes I am serious. It was the first time I'd ever been in a Merc, and I had high hopes.

But noooooo.

BTW, 'foreign' cars are not generally more expensive that domestic ars. But they sure are a h*ll of a lot better.

Tell me a foreign car that is the same size as a Charger, with the same power and for the same price

xHaZxMaTx · Post by **xHaZxMaTx** » 17 Jul 2005, 05:23

Of course German car's aren't nearly as expensive in Europe, they don't have to be shipped.

Jopuma · Post by **Jopuma** » 17 Jul 2005, 08:13

Cool. *drool drips from mouth* The Vauxhall VX.

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Vauxha ... _km_07.jpg

Too bad some lady had to be in the veiw of this one.

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Vauxha ... _km_01.jpg

PSZeTa · Post by **PSZeTa** » 17 Jul 2005, 08:51

TheStig wrote:I know what the main point is.but for me a american car isn't cheap exept ford cause they have a special line of european cars wich has nothing similar with the US cars.. ok we got the focus and Fusion (but both in a difirent version and looks)
and Mercedes isn't my personal german favorite also.. they don't have really good quality in the lower segment.. and the higher class cars like the S class it ridiculous expensive also.
I prefer Audi and BMW in the lower and middle class.

The most important reason is that you pay for the Mercedes-Benz star. It shows class and luxury. MB is also working on the quality of the electronics. I heard that they will scrap all unnecessary electronics in the next E-Class. ( And the design of the car is horrible, btw.. )

The new S-Class does get quite a lot of standard options though. The other optional stuff isn't really that important when you are just an ''average'' driver. It's mostly ''fun'' and neat stuff.

master m · Post by **master m** » 17 Jul 2005, 11:38

Jopuma wrote:Cool. *drool drips from mouth* The Vauxhall VX.

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Vauxha ... _km_07.jpg

Too bad some lady had to be in the veiw of this one.

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Vauxha ... _km_01.jpg

I don't mind looking at that lady

If you look the lisenceplate it says "Vauxhall VX ... 2002". So i think it's a concept of the current VX220. Or am I wrong

xHaZxMaTx · Post by **xHaZxMaTx** » 17 Jul 2005, 18:18

Bogan, I wasn't talking about the Charger, just 'normal' cars. You know, mid-size sedans and what not.

Jopuma · Post by **Jopuma** » 17 Jul 2005, 20:33

master m wrote:
Jopuma wrote:Cool. *drool drips from mouth* The Vauxhall VX.

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Vauxha ... _km_07.jpg

Too bad some lady had to be in the veiw of this one.

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Vauxha ... _km_01.jpg
I don't mind looking at that lady

If you look the lisenceplate it says "Vauxhall VX ... 2002". So i think it's a concept of the current VX220. Or am I wrong

It's an '04 actually.

S2000_Skyline12 · Post by **S2000_Skyline12** » 18 Jul 2005, 16:02

i like the VX220 better.

Off-topic: oh yeah i rember a Dreamcast games called Metropolis Street Racer and it has a lot of japanese and euro cars

Hecubus · Post by **Hecubus** » 19 Jul 2005, 04:30

TheStig wrote:
Hecubus wrote: As for the Charger, it shows just how unfamiliar with American cars you are, Stig. The Charger didn't die a legend.

let me refrase.. it should have died as a legend..!

Hecubus wrote: The Charger SRT-8 comes pretty close to competeing with Benz's own AMG E55, but for a hell of a lot less money (it's roomier, to boot).
that is a damn nice frase... really it can ALMOST compete with a AMG E55... in other words it can't!
I seriously doubt it is roomier...maybe it's total size is bigger but with most american cars they are filled with USELESS space! americans should learn that BIGGER isn't always better! (and yes I know you are a canadien!)
and maybe in performance it comes pretty close to competing with a E55 but that is it.. in style or luxury it it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind. cause other thing american car designers should learn is that plastic is NOT a luxury product.. and using recycled wheeliebins is not good for a dashboard!
in other words the merc is a complete difirent league!

Hecubus wrote: Furthermore, it's the cheapest V8 RWD sedan available (well, the regular RT). Besides, it's only 100lbs more than the doodiehead-mobile Murcieliago.
alteast the wankermobile is made by people who have style and know how to build a good looking car!
cause american do a weewee poor job at that. the only good looking car was a car is from days gone by... (the GT40)
and I don't know if you noticed but the Murcialago isn't a lightweight you know...

one more thing it is correct that I don't know much about american cars... and I don't really feel the urge to even try to know a little more about them, I know what I have seen and driven. I been to the US a few times and rented a cars there (pontiac, ford) and I worked for a ford dealer for a while and driven a few US fords and mercurys and lincolns there
(the funny thing is the only buyers for the US fords/mercury that are sold here where Americans that are stationed here (military personel)
and what suprised me that even when they look big.. the space inside like trunkspace isn't impressive... and they all got the luxury plastic interiour

but he that's just me

So the Charger should've died as a legend. Big deal, it didn't, and there's no point in harping on the new Charger, as it's as good a car as we can realisitcally expect Chrysler to produce.

And, when I said that the SRT8 comes close to competing with the E55, it was so I didn't shoot my mouth off and claim something unrealisitc (I was too lazy to do research). However, I've looked it up, and for $35k (US) less, the SRT8 is a damn good competitor. Having slightly more power, (although the two cars weigh almost the exact same) it's to be expected that the Benz will out-accelerate the Dodge, getting to 60mph in several tenths of a second less (as the speeds rise, the Benz does start to pull away even more, getting to 150mph in seven fewer seconds). However, the Dodge pulls to a higher top speed (admittedly totally irrelevant, as the Benz has a limiter). The Dodge also out-handles the Benz, and has identical braking distances. As for space, the Dodge is considerably larger on the interior, bearing an extra 11 cu. ft (basically, the LX cars have the same interior room as a Benz S-class or BMW 7-series). I conceed that the Benz probably has a nicer interior (although I can't exactly compare). I blame that both on the lower price (that $35k has to come from somewhere), and that it's basically the same interior throughout the Charger line (the base model is about the same price as a Camry). The plastics are a little on the hard side, but I imagine they'll age very well. Also, speaking of luxury (as this is the only aspect I can quantify for comparative purposes), the Charger is equally quiet as the Benz, or any of it's competitors

As for the wankermobile, the only great design Lamborghini ever did was the Muira (the Countach deserves a bit of respect for being so outlandish, although it's not exactly gorgeous). The Diablo, the Murcieliago, the Gallardo, they're all the typical wedge shape, nothing that special there. And, I know it's overweight.

Anyways, sticking with the design aspect, it seems that American cars just tend to be bland, but not hideous, while European cars seem to be more divided between good designs, and some chances taken that turned out poorly. For instance, the Chris Bangle BMW's (although I like them), the Maybach 57/62 and Benz CLS (which look droopy, like regular, attractive Mercedes-Benzes that have been left in the microwave for too long), or the notoriously ugly Ford Scorpio come to mind. Oh, and the new VW Jetta, which has a rear end copied from the Toyota Corolla, one of the most boring cars on the planet.

I'll admit, one problem that undoubtedly plauges American cars, is that they're developed almost exclusively for the North American market. For instance, my Intrepid is pefectly suited for what I need it to do. But, I don't imagine I'd want to drive it in any European city (even driving it in Toronto takes a bit of skill). Then again, the only reasonably priced European cars we get here are Volkswagens. They're nice cars, but they're apparantly not the most reliable cars available.

Anyways, I don't mean to detract from European cars, but I suggest that you may be a little too critical of American cars, based on only a few negative experiences with them.

And, to keep this from being too much of a hijack, Pontiac is apparantly considering offering a removable hardtop with the Solstice when it comes out, so it'd be eligible to compete in SCCA racing. So, I wonder if later on, we could see a production version of the Solstice coupe that was originally shown with the roadster.

Post by **TheStig** » 19 Jul 2005, 07:19

you sure got a some good points there. I will give you that. I don't know how the dodge handles and I probably never will cause it won't make the atlantic crossing. but I do agree that is it probably is a good value for money car. cause it is not as expensive, I don't know what a average new Merc costs. and I don't know what a Charger here will cost cause most american cars are not officially imported, but you can get some US cars here at special US car imports they import cars like the new (and older) mustangs and Escalades, Hummers and stuff like that.. and they are often really expensive especially cars like escalades and H2's are really expensive... they range from 65.000 dollar up to 125.000 dollar for a Escalade and the H2 goes from 100.000 and upto 125.000.

while looking up the H2's and Caddies I also looked if they hade chargers and guess what...
they have a new charger for sale also the 6.1 Hemi SRT-8
well after looking at the Dutch price I wanted to know the US price also.. to compare it with.

US price: 32.000 Dollar for the 5.7 (could not find the SRT8)
Dutch price: 107.500 Dollar!!! (for the SRT8) 65.000 for the 5.7 ltr.
a New E55 costs for 135.000 they where not sold much here... but normal E-class you see here ALOT! and a a 7 year old E55 costs 25.000
have to say I never seen one.. the E class is not a really popular car as sport version that is why the E55 is not sold much here.. the E class is the classic CAB here

so for us a American car (the more special ones) are just as expensive as a high class german car.

looking at the charger for a while not it slightly grows on me

it is a slight topic hijack.. but he for a good cause...

here is something alot of europeans know...

classical german cab:

Jopuma · Post by **Jopuma** » 19 Jul 2005, 08:45

Everyone is getting into really long posts now.

Focer · Post by **Focer** » 20 Jul 2005, 01:22

2007 BMW M3 E90 is comming out. I think they will have a four door too

Hecubus · Post by **Hecubus** » 20 Jul 2005, 06:02

TheStig wrote:you sure got a some good points there. I will give you that. I don't know how the dodge handles and I probably never will cause it won't make the atlantic crossing. but I do agree that is it probably is a good value for money car.

Actually, the Charger may make the crossing. Chrysler's already brought the 300 over (which is mechanically identical to the Charger, although I believe it's a little more softly sprung). Still, the LX cars handle respectably. Alot of understeer, which can mostly be atributed to a needlessly paranoid stability control (I wasn't allowed to turn it off at the Chrysler-sponsored event where I drove the 300C and Magnum). Still, I don't believe the SRT8 has the same stability control, as it got 0.9g on the skidpad.

And, oncemore, to keep from a severe hijack:
According to my newest Car and Driver, the next car MazdaSpeed's working on is the 3. Given that it's apparantly going to be using the motor from the MazdaSpeed6, it looks like the WRX and Evo will be facing competiton, which is kinda sweet.