American Cars or European Cars?

baumaxx1 · Post by **baumaxx1** » 14 Nov 2008, 14:41

Isn't the ZR1 a modified Z06? Wouldn't it be more?

Koenigsegg_Rox · Post by **Koenigsegg_Rox** » 14 Nov 2008, 20:22

steelsnake00 wrote:But come on, which one would you live with on a day-to-day basis. An old-school muscle car with uprated suspention; thats made from sticky back plastic, with a decades old engine mildly pepped up, or a properly scratch built, high-class road racer?

I'll take the ZR1 thanks. It's not as bad as you make it out to be.

XCROSSX · Post by **XCROSSX** » 15 Nov 2008, 00:00

steelsnake00 wrote:But come on, which one would you live with on a day-to-day basis. An old-school muscle car with uprated suspention; thats made from sticky back plastic, with a decades old engine mildly pepped up, or a properly scratch built, high-class road racer?

I'd go for what you call old-school muscle car.

Koenigsegg_Rox · Post by **Koenigsegg_Rox** » 15 Nov 2008, 01:06

Not to mention the LS3 isn't old, it's actually brand new engine. Oh and the Nissan GT-R isn't really for what you'd call bumpy roads. Wheels magazine Australia said that even in "Comfort" the suspension is a bit on the hard side on Australian roads.

PSZeTa · Post by **PSZeTa** » 15 Nov 2008, 01:32

But the ZR-1 isn't?

Koenigsegg_Rox · Post by **Koenigsegg_Rox** » 15 Nov 2008, 03:17

No actually, it isn't.

Striker94 · Post by **Striker94** » 15 Nov 2008, 06:07

It actually (the ZR1) has MRC (magnetic ride control) which can dramatically alter the stiffness of the springs either for comfort, or stiffer for faster track times.

The GT-R is obviously a more track-orientated car, having stiffer spring and less rebound to make sure track times are lower. The ZR1 can do both compliant road modew and aggresive track-attack mode, depending on what the driver wants.

baumaxx1 · Post by **baumaxx1** » 15 Nov 2008, 07:26

Koenigsegg_Rox wrote:Not to mention the LS3 isn't old, it's actually brand new engine. Oh and the Nissan GT-R isn't really for what you'd call bumpy roads. Wheels magazine Australia said that even in "Comfort" the suspension is a bit on the hard side on Australian roads.

Yeah, but Australian roads are crap. I find them bumpy in a magna, and even worse in the 380 with stiffer suspension and lower profile tyres. Our only good roads are the ones where you can do 80 +

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 15 Nov 2008, 07:34

Koenigsegg_Rox wrote:Not to mention the LS3 isn't old, it's actually brand new engine.

lol, although it may be built in 2008, it still has 50 million year old technology (pushrods/OHV). It also has a supercharger, yet only makes just over 100hp per litre. These days, most performance engines can easily make 100hp/litre without forced induction.

Koenigsegg_Rox wrote:Oh and the Nissan GT-R isn't really for what you'd call bumpy roads. Wheels magazine Australia said that even in "Comfort" the suspension is a bit on the hard side on Australian roads.

The GTR also has computer-adjusted dampers, but I think they are different to the magnetorheological dampers found in the ZR1.
The stiffness comes down to the car being Japanese, and the roads in Japan are some of the best in the world so they don't worry about ride comfort. And they may not care about the ride comfort of people in other countries.

For the Aus market though, I would be suprised if they put it on sale without revising the suspension for "Australian conditions". That is usualy what happens.

Actually what am I talking about . . . if you worry that much about ride comfort then you're a girl. Go and buy a Cadillac.

I still don't understand why people are comparing the GTR to the ZR1. The Z06 sits in the same price range, so compare that instead. Or wait for the V-Spec.

Striker94 · Post by **Striker94** » 15 Nov 2008, 09:24

You've got a good point there, but the Z06 isn't nearly as advanced, or as fast, as the ZR1, let alone the GT-R. However, about using a pushrod engine, the only reason Corvette used a pushrod was to fit a supercharger under the hood. Otherwise it would either have to have a ridiculious hood scoop, or be naturally-aspirated.

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 15 Nov 2008, 09:42

Haven't the Americans heard of turbochargers? Blowers are for tractors.

baumaxx1 · Post by **baumaxx1** » 15 Nov 2008, 09:55

boganbusman wrote:Haven't the Americans heard of turbochargers? Blowers are for tractors.

They don't have to use a roots type supercharger... they can use one that is very similar to a turbo unit.

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 15 Nov 2008, 10:09

You mean a centrifugal supercharger?

baumaxx1 · Post by **baumaxx1** » 15 Nov 2008, 10:39

Yeah.

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 15 Nov 2008, 13:17

boganbusman wrote:You mean a centrifugal supercharger?

Or a twin-screw supercharger, like all the high-performance supercharged European cars are starting to use (not to mention the Ford GT, too)

The ZR1 isn't a muscle car, anyway. It's a sports car with a big heavy muscle car engine.

TONTO89 · Post by **TONTO89** » 18 Nov 2008, 03:16

steelsnake00 wrote:
The ZR1 isn't a muscle car, anyway. It's a sports car with a big heavy muscle car engine.

isn't the engine what makes a muscle car a muscle car tho?

not that I care, corvette's are hideous

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 18 Nov 2008, 11:05

If the engine is what makes a muscle car, then any sports car powered by a large (over 5.7L) V8 should be a muscle car. It's the feeling of the car which dictates whether it's a muscle car or not; muscle cars are all about straight line speed, and giving up when you reach a mild bend. Seen as the ZR1 laps the 'Ring faster than a GT-R it's pretty obvious it can do corners.

Koenigsegg_Rox · Post by **Koenigsegg_Rox** » 18 Nov 2008, 11:55

Actually a pretty much better assumption is any large-displacement V8 engine by GM or Ford determines a muscle car.....am I right?

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 18 Nov 2008, 12:00

No. Many people put yank V8s into other cars, including kit cars.

Then there are the nutjobs who put V8s into small water vessels, but that doesn't make it a 'muscle boat' does it? It's just a fast boat. In the same way, the ZR1 is just a fast car, not a muscle car.

baumaxx1 · Post by **baumaxx1** » 18 Nov 2008, 12:08

boganbusman wrote:No. Many people put yank V8s into other cars, including kit cars.

Then there are the nutjobs who put V8s into small water vessels, but that doesn't make it a 'muscle boat' does it? It's just a fast boat. In the same way, the ZR1 is just a fast car, not a muscle car.

Yeha, and the Koenigsegg is a V8 as far as I know.

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 18 Nov 2008, 12:30

Ah that's right. They have their own engine design now, but didn't they have big Ford V8s before?

Post by **TheStig** » 18 Nov 2008, 22:19

Yep they had Ford V8's before, now in the CCX and CCXR they build their own engines.

Koenigsegg_Rox · Post by **Koenigsegg_Rox** » 18 Nov 2008, 23:16

boganbusman wrote:No. Many people put yank V8s into other cars, including kit cars.

Then there are the nutjobs who put V8s into small water vessels, but that doesn't make it a 'muscle boat' does it? It's just a fast boat. In the same way, the ZR1 is just a fast car, not a muscle car.

Yes but thats people building their OWN cars. I'm talking PRODUCTION cars here.... and the "kit-car" you are talking about is the Ultima series, no?

xHaZxMaTx · Post by **xHaZxMaTx** » 19 Nov 2008, 00:52

boganbusman wrote:No. Many people put yank V8s into other cars...

Koenigsegg_Rox wrote:Yes but thats people building their OWN cars. I'm talking PRODUCTION cars here...

boganbusman wrote:Ah that's right. [Koenigsegg] have their own engine design now, but didn't they have big Ford V8s before?

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 19 Nov 2008, 01:02

Heres an example. The Mosler MT900R and Ultima both use 5.7L+ US V8's (in both race and road trim) and they're far, far, far from being muscle cars. Both can be ordered in kit form, but also can be manufacturer built. Also, the later Marcos cars use US V8 motors.

The Koenigsegg engine is British built 4.7l (but used to be a Ford Modular V8).

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