V8 power from a V6 [Ford's TwinForce TT-V6]

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Grez~Supra_RZ-S
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

PhYsIcS wrote: What the heck does power/weight have to do with the mechanics of an engine? That's dealing with the entire car itself, so what are you even talking about? Stick to your little Nissans, you're running your mouth about things you don't even have any knowledge on. What's the point of arguing about it?
Do you even drive? Im running my mouth off about an engine Ive done a LOT of research on, as I was planning on buying a first gen Camaro as my next project. Power/weight has nothing to do with the mechanics of the engine, but then I never said it did. I said the 350 was horribly inefficient, and was put in cars that weighed in heavier than planets. If you want a penis measuring contest about knowledge of engines or cars in general, Im game.
In the late 80's the 350 TPI was putting out 230 hp, 330 ft lbs of torque. Where are you getting your numbers from? 175 hp was like from the Crossfire fuel injection, which was used in the early 80's when GM, Ford, and Dodge were having trouble switching to fuel injection and maintaining the power. Oh yeah, those 350's sucked bumbum.
My mistake, I was actually referring to the small block 305, which squeezed out a massive 145bhp from a 5.0L V8. Gosh, how did they manage it?! :roll:

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Imports weren't any better off in the 80's either, most of them sucked just as bad. The 80's Nissan An 89 Turbo Supra was only 230 hp and would end up costing you more then a fully loaded Trans Am, weak...
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Post by HashiriyaGDB »

Just to go off tangent for just a bit, here's the page from Car magazine that I was going to post.

This is a review of the then new Evo IX FQ-320

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If you have trouble reading the text, lower your resolution.


As for good 80's Japanese imports for North America, we only got the Supra, FC, Z31 300ZX, and the S13.
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Post by steelsnake00 »

HashiriyaGDB wrote: As for good 80's Japanese imports for North America, we only got the Supra, FC, Z31 300ZX, and the S13.
All of which will keep pace with a big-block car, or outstrip it, with displacements ranging from 1.3 (rotary) to 3.2l.
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Post by TheStig »

darknight788 wrote:thats b/c in the 80s the new epa rules went into effect and electronic fuel injection was brand new and they didnt know how to get around that.
That is ofcourse BS,

In 1955 Bosch made a EFI system for the Mercedes SL300... and they system goes back to WWII where with huge effect the Germans used it in their figher planes, and later on the US used it in the B29 Flying fortress.
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Post by darknight788 »

you forgot to mention that it was mechanical fuel injection :wink: im talking about EFI which didnt really take off in US cars until the mid to late 70's. and back then there was the fuel shortage and the new efi computers that nobody new how to hack and on top of that the new epa regulations. all of those factors caused a chevy 350 that used to have 350 horsepower stock at one time drop all the way down to 125 hp when EFI was new technology on those engines
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Post by steelsnake00 »

Because the American's cant build anything that works properly first time. They've gotta wait til someone else designs it for them.
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Post by H. mAIOR »

Yeah but EFI has a bucket load of advantages including environmental ones wich most people brush asside.
In performance ones it also has some advantages as it keeps better control on the fuel injection (I think I sound a little redundant here no?).
Well, the new mitsubishi is awsome and in europe we never had problems with fast cars :)

Cheers...
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Post by SuperString »

Why the hell are we arguing about chevy anyhow? Chevy is only good when it comes to V8 configuration, and even then they use a pushrod tech. I mean, come on, '60 are long gone, look, BMW is already starting to produce a next gen engines. As for a smaller engines, 4 or 6 cylinders, I won't even start.
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Post by darknight788 »

im willing to bet all cars that switch over to brand new efi systems back then were gutless as hell. even a late 80's bmw e32 with a v12 only made 300 hp and that wasnt necessarily a old efi system
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Post by SuperString »

darknight788 wrote:im willing to bet all cars that switch over to brand new efi systems back then were gutless as hell. even a late 80's bmw e32 with a v12 only made 300 hp and that wasnt necessarily a old efi system
In 78 BMW produced an E21 320 Turbo that produced a 600hp(!!!) out of a 2 L i4 engine. Back at 1978!!! And car weight only 900 kg!
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Post by darknight788 »

yea but that was a race car. the engines probably had to be replaced or rebuilt every couple of races since 600 hp for a 2l I4 is alot
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Post by SuperString »

600 Hp is mighty impressive by any standard. However the engine these cars came with as standard also had a great legacy of giving the M10 engine block to the BMW F1 turbo cars, which ran a modified M10 block, 4 valve head with two camshafts, approx 4.0+ BAR of turbo boost, 1.5L displacement and produced over 1280hp... Now there is a engine one would love to get transplanted into a 320i...

But you're right, it's moddified.
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Post by steelsnake00 »

darknight788 wrote:im willing to bet all cars that switch over to brand new efi systems back then were gutless as hell. even a late 80's bmw e32 with a v12 only made 300 hp and that wasnt necessarily a old efi system
Yeah, but it had 5.0l displacement
7.5 L V8's didn't make that much.
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Post by darknight788 »

8.5L v8? do you mean 7.5L v8 ? if so that would be the ford 460 which was very old for its time and couldnt hold a candle stick next to a 454 in terms of everything much smaller blocks made more torque and hp than that thing :roll:. unless over there you have 8.5L v8's ?
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Post by steelsnake00 »

Sorry, typo. Now corrected.
It just goes to show that refinement ALWAYS wins in the end!
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Post by PhYsIcS »

Do you even drive? Im running my mouth off about an engine Ive done a LOT of research on, as I was planning on buying a first gen Camaro as my next project. Power/weight has nothing to do with the mechanics of the engine, but then I never said it did. I said the 350 was horribly inefficient, and was put in cars that weighed in heavier than planets. If you want a penis measuring contest about knowledge of engines or cars in general, Im game.
And I'm arguing it's not horribly inefficient. You're comment that the engine is inefficient only refers to the late 70's and 80's 350 fuel injected engines. Last time I checked it's 2007 and the 350 is no where near as crappy as it was in the 80's. Those cars are not that heavy either. A fully loaded 1988 Trans Am GTA weighs slightly over 3400 lbs. 3400 lbs is typical for an F-body and even a Mustang. If you bought a fully loaded First Gen Camaro SS back in the day it would weigh about the same if not more. If you're thinking about buying a First Gen Camaro, then what engine are you going to put in it if it's not a 350? A 396? A 427? You want to talk about throwing off the power to weight balance, go ahead and put a big block in there. The fact of the matter is if you're not using a big block in a First Gen Camaro, there is no other better choice than the 350. There are rediculous huge amount of aftermarket supply for the engine, and you can make just as much power out of it as those big blocks. You can turbocharge it, supercharge it, fuel injection, dual carb setup. The only other smallblock option I would ever consider other then a 350 is the 302. Its a powerful high revving engine, but not nearly enough aftermarket for it as the 350.

Edit: If you're looking for a car with good weight distribution, then you should probably take a look at the Chevy Nova. The later 60's models had a 50/50 weight distribution. Plus they were really light cars, like only 3000-3100 lbs with full interior. Only real downside is they are bland as hell looking.

There are two types of 350 V8's you can get today from General Motors. That is the LS1 Aluminum V8, and the crate motor 350 V8, which is essentially the same design they've been using for decades. The LS1 weighs less then the 4.3L V6 in my S-10, and still put out 350 hp, 350 lbs of torque. That is an extremely potent engine. Once again the crate 350 you can buy from GM produces the same amount of power or more. Last time I checked you could get a 400 hp 350 V8 from GM. You go to some speed shops and you'll find crate 350's fully assembled with even more power.
My mistake, I was actually referring to the small block 305, which squeezed out a massive 145bhp from a 5.0L V8. Gosh, how did they manage it?! Rolling Eyes
So now all of a sudden we're talking about the 305. If these 80's motors are what you're doing all your research on then I have to ask, are you retarded? No doubt about it that motor sucked. If the 80's 350 was crappy, then this thing was a pile of shiznit. However the 145 hp 5.0 was not your typical V8 you would see on the road. The 215 hp TPI fuel injected 5.0 was the typical one most people bought. You won't find so many of those weak ass 140-160 hp 5.0's today. Why would you even be wasting your time looking at these 80's V8's if you want a First Gen Camaro? Thats stupid. If you're looking for a fuel injection setup, then they have aftermarket fuel injection for crate 350's. Buy a fuel rail setup, don't go with throttle body injection. If you want to keep the engine light, they have aluminum cylinder heads and intakes. If you want something even lighter and computer controlled, buy an LS1. GM still makes crate LS1's and they are pretty cheap. You can buy all of these motors fully assembled, or just the block itself.
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The Corvette was faster then the Turbo Mk3 Supra, the Iroc-Z/GTA and 5.0 Mustang smoked the non-Turbo Supra, the 80's RX7 was a horrid piece of junk with more problems than even F-bodies, 80's 300ZX(Z31) wasn't a bad car at all but it was still slow (weakest turbo model made 160 hp, whoopee), Skyline didn't exist in America, the 200SX is slower then any of the other cars you just listed. At best that thing only put out 160 hp in the late 80's. No one was looking at that car dude it was the 300ZX people wanted. Like I said, the imports weren't any better off in the 80's. The 80's simply sucked for cars end of story. Things finally picked up pace in the early 90's for both Imports and domestic cars. You had the TwinTurbo 300ZX, the MkIV Twin Turbo Supra, the LT1 F-Body, LS1 Corvette, the Mustang's kind of slacked but the Cobras weren't that bad.
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Post by steelsnake00 »

I can't be bothered to quote, but your last paragraph is utter, utter shiznit. So what if a 5.7l V8 has more power and is faster in a straight LINE than a 200SX, the 80's and 90's Mustang's, Corvettes et al sucked beyond all recognition around a track.
You might as well face up to the fact that a big, burly V8 is all well and good but any argument about power to weight, overall power and refinement goes out the window when compared to smaller, but higher strung European and Asian motors.
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Post by SuperString »

PhYsIcS wrote: The Corvette was faster then the Turbo Mk3 Supra, the Iroc-Z/GTA and 5.0 Mustang smoked the non-Turbo Supra, the 80's RX7 was a horrid piece of junk with more problems than even F-bodies


Ahm, Mazda was the only company in the world that had the guts to make and improve Wankel engines. Only for the record: there are Rotarys that produce 1500hp+ (we are talking <2L engine!) and run high to mid 6 in 1/4 mile. Not to mention, RX7 IS gonna spank Vette that delivers same amount of power.
And 5.0 Mustang vs non-turbo Supra??? What kind of comparison is that? non-T Supra has less displacement, less cylinder, less power, and the weight of Supra. Man, that is just like you would say 15 year old bully vs 10 year old kid.
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Post by darknight788 »

now were starting to compare modified to stock again :roll: if you want to compare horsepower then fine ill take my 8000 horsepower top fuel motor
Not to mention, RX7 IS gonna spank Vette that delivers same amount of power.
:roll: modified vs. stock apply the same mods to the vette :wink:
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Post by xHaZxMaTx »

I don't think applying the same mods to the Corvette would do anything, considering they're entirely different types of engines. :P
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Post by SuperString »

I'm not telling stock vs modded, also modded vs modded. I found an RX7 with little over 500 hp that runs almost 10 flat.
And, ask yourself why is RX so great platform for LT engines.
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Post by steelsnake00 »

I will simplify this thread to finish it off.

Ford's V6 TT = nothing special
Most big or small block V8's = really rather overrated
Moderny small-blocky = unnessesary.
The end.
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Post by boganbusman »

steelsnake00 wrote:Ford's V6 TT = nothing special
I agree with that . . .
steelsnake00 wrote:Most big or small block V8's = really rather overrated
. . . but now you're just being silly.
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Post by steelsnake00 »

Why am I?
Low power to weight, low power to displacement even for N/A engines...
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Post by darknight788 »

I found an RX7 with little over 500 hp that runs almost 10 flat.
now apply those same mods whether it be turbo, nos, etc to a vette
just forget about low power to weight the fact is those low power to weight engines produce the most horsepower in the automotive world
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