TECH TALK - ask your technical car questions

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 05 Jun 2007, 20:12

FI = Forced Induction.
Pretty basic stuff.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 05 Jun 2007, 20:55

well you would be surprised how many preludes are running around with forced induction. and its not really a stragiht line car it does plenty fine on turns and what not.
a review about the type SH "super handling"
The Prelude has always served as Honda's technological showcase and this is most obvious in ATTS, as it's called. This system moves front-drive performance cars another step closer to parity with their rear-drive competitors in terms of absolute handling. Here's how it works: When a front-drive car hustles around a corner, its front tires have to transfer power to the ground as well as steer the car. That - plus the pronounced forward weight bias that goes with having all the powertrain stuff up front - is why front-wheel-drive cars such as the Prelude are more prone to understeer than rear-drive cars. Automatic Torque Transfer makes the car easier to drive quickly and helps reduce understeer. (Understeer describes a car's resistance to turn-in. The faster the entry speed to a given corner, the more the car wants to go straight ahead.) ATTS addresses this trait through a clever set of mechanical functions that automatically transfers engine torque to the outside front wheel, while increasing its rotational speed. Transferring as much as 80 percent of the power into the outside front wheel, which typically bears the heaviest load in hard cornering, compensates for the extra load and restores balance. The effect is sometimes compared to that of a bulldozer, which can turn the right tracks faster than the left tracks when it turns left. It's a clever Honda solution to a problem no one else has really managed to solve - and it works.

doesnt sound like a straight line car if you ask me

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 05 Jun 2007, 21:11

So basically, it's a complex solution to a problem that would have never existed if they made the bloody thing RWD in the first place

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 05 Jun 2007, 21:24

why would they do that ? that would take sales away from the s2000. it would be sweet though if it was rwd but o well handles just fine for what i use it for

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 05 Jun 2007, 22:16

Preludes have been out of production since 2001-2.
The S2000 has been in production since about then
So how will it take away sales?

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 05 Jun 2007, 22:37

honda has been making their cars front wheel drive for a long time , i guess it helps with fuel economy and it definitely helps with slippery roads because the engine weight is over the drive tires. the s2000 was introduced in early 1999. during the development of the s2000 engineers were thinking about making the prelude RWD but the designers thought that it would have taken away sales from their upcoming roadster

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 05 Jun 2007, 23:27

darknight788 wrote:how doesnt it have anything to do with H series motors ? you take a h22 head and you put it on a h23a1 block dont see a B anywhere in there i would know i did it.

The 'frankenstein' conversion is a trademark Honda swap. It involves putting a B16 head onto a B18 block. The scientific part, taken from here:

The Integra B18A1 and B18B1 engines displace 1834cc and have an 81mm x 89mm bore and stroke configuration. In the case of the two B-series DOHC VTEC engines, the Integra B18C1 (GSR) moves 1797cc with an 81mm x 87.2mm bore and stroke combo and the Del Sol B16A1 combusts 1595cc with an 81mm x 77.4mm bore and stroke. Basically, this shows that the B18A1 in stock trim has 35cc more displacement than the B18C1 and 239cc more than the B16A1! This is the primary reason why the non-VTEC motor exhibits more of the bottom and mid-range torque than each of the VTEC models. Since none of the Honda engines have the sheer volume of V8 iron, the need to extract as many ccs as possible is necessary to create the low-end power needed to propel a vehicle down the quarter-mile effectively.

second the prelude isnt stock i said the stock vtec versions with 190 hp will do 0-60 in about 7 secs.

The H22A in the Prelude is 200bhp, not 190bhp. The 190bhp H22A engine is found in the Accord. Source. The JDM market received the 220bhp H22A, the UKDM and USDM received the 200bhp version. Also, every source Ive found for the 0-60 time for the none-JDM 'Lude suggests mid/late sevens, which is slow by any accounts. Perhaps it has something to do with the 1330kg weight...

modified h23's with the h22 head will put out about 210-225 hp depending on setup and what year the head and ecu are.

This thread may interest you. Memorable quotes include:

h23/vtec is worthless

they dont run right most of the time and dont put down any more power than a well tuned h22a. dont wast your money

yes a h23/vtec is just like doing a lz or b20/vtec. im not sure why they never run right but i dont know anyone that has one that does.

well i know of one person. he races a 5th gen prelude in the speedvision world challenge. he came to the ECHC race 2 weekends ago, thats where i met him. he has h23/vtec and is supposedly putting down 217 hp, has motec engine management remote resovior shocks, blah blah.... alot of mess that is illegal in honda challenge. there is another guy that runs a 93 prelude vtec. he puts down 181hp, all he has is boltons and koni yellows with custom GC springs.

we were at lowes motor speedway where HP matters going around the oval and the 93 lude was running away from the speedvision car. stick some type S pistons in ur h22, mill the head and get some good engine management. dont waste your money on a h23/vtec

Exactly. H23/H22 is a pretty worthless combo. Not only will you get the same problems associated w/ other frankensteins (which can all be worked out, naturally, but it is time consuming), it puts near the same power to the ground as a bone stock h22a

Congratulations, oh master mechanic.

well you would be surprised how many preludes are running around with forced induction

I wouldnt, given their high compression ratio. Fact is and always has been, you dont buy a H22 to turbo, because itll cost an arm and a leg, and probably some kidneys too.

a review about the type SH "super handling"
The Prelude has always served ...blah blah, some crap about how Honda still havent cured understeer, or torque steer

Stop making up facts. If you dont know about it, admit it.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 06 Jun 2007, 01:28

1995 VTEC Prelude- 190 bhp H22A1
2001 VTEC Prelude - 200 bhp H22A
if you want full engine codes they would be H22A1 in the early preludes and H22A in later preludes the head swap involves a H23A1 and a H22A1
ROFL your talking about putting a 1.8L engine on a 2.3L block

h23vtec, which utilizes an h23 block and h22 vtec head, you can search ALL of the honda prelude forums and every single site will say the same thing, so let me guess your going to say my engine wont run because i guess i got a head on a engine that dont mix. well they do mix HERE IN AMERICA did you ever think that different parts of the world have different engine codes ? maybe the setup your talking about will work too but where i live the swap is between a H22 and a H23. a H22 is guess what 2.2L and a H23 is 2.3L the only major difference in them is the H23 has a longer stroke otherwise it has same bore and all.
and actually that you mention it i wonder how many of the poeple that have tried the H23A1/H22A1 conversion are ASE certified

i willing to bet not many.

I wouldnt, given their high compression ratio. Fact is and always has been, you dont buy a H22 to turbo, because itll cost an arm and a leg, and probably some kidneys too.

coming from someone that lives across the swamp

why dont you float your self over here and see

Stop making up facts. If you dont know about it, admit it.

i didnt write that someone else did i even have the link

anything else ? if you want you can debate this till your blue in the face . i know im right

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 06 Jun 2007, 10:15

Do you actually read anything, or do you simply skim the text and just pick out random words?

darknight788 wrote:1995 VTEC Prelude- 190 bhp H22A1
2001 VTEC Prelude - 200 bhp H22A

Read the source...

ROFL your talking about putting a 1.8L engine on a 2.3L block

...what?! Since when was a B16 a 1.8L, and a B18 a 2.3L? READ the post, and particularly the quotes taken from people who have actually done it.

h23vtec, which utilizes an h23 block and h22 vtec head, you can search ALL of the honda prelude forums and every single site will say the same thing, so let me guess your going to say my engine wont run because i guess i got a head on a engine that dont mix. well they do mix HERE IN AMERICA did you ever think that different parts of the world have different engine codes ? maybe the setup your talking about will work too but where i live the swap is between a H22 and a H23. a H22 is guess what 2.2L and a H23 is 2.3L the only major difference in them is the H23 has a longer stroke otherwise it has same bore and all.

The US is no different to anywhere else in the world. For what its worth, the people who were saying it doesnt work are from the US. Once again, actually read it.

and actually that you mention it i wonder how many of the poeple that have tried the H23A1/H22A1 conversion are ASE certified i willing to bet not many.

Given the crap you usually talk, Im willing to bet not any.

coming from someone that lives across the swamp why dont you float your self over here and see

Aw, how cute. Unfortunately, its probably cheaper for me to buy three Preludes than it is for you to buy one, so unlucky. Remember, I can get a B18C6 with ECU and gearbox for Â£300. Youll never see it anywhere near that cheap.

i didnt write that someone else did i even have the link

I wasnt talking about that quote, I was talking about your posts in general. It seems to me you have very little idea about actually modifying cars, and you just blag your way from thread to thread. When proven wrong, you put it down to the fact that cars are somehow magically different in the US. If someone American proves you wrong, then its down to your local area for being different. It just gets old. Im all for people learning about cars, what annoys me the most is people spouting misinformation, then claiming it as gospel because theyre a ''qualified mechanic''. Based on what you type in this forum, I wouldnt leave my car within a thousand miles of you, even if it only needed the plugs changing.

anything else ? if you want you can debate this till your blue in the face . i know im right

Nah I think Im done. Given that you wont actually read my post, let alone admit youve no idea what youre talking about.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 06 Jun 2007, 12:53

you have no firetruck god damn clue what your talking about o wise one. im sorry but my engine displaces more than a 2liter bottle of coke. your talking about doing a B18 vtec which is completely different than doing a h23 vtec. if you knew something then you would know what im talking about infact go on every single honda prelude forum and ask around about a h23/h22 conversion and you will find lots of information including step by step instructions on how to do it. and as usuall nobody reads the earlier postsa but i got all the shiznit from a freind for 250$ dont know how much that is in what ever crap you use but its pretty damn cheap.
and i wouldnt want to work on your goddamn car its a pile anyway
it seems now that you have not disputed any of my facts and now you are doing the typical US bashing and all that other shiznit , why dont you grow up once

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 06 Jun 2007, 12:54

darknight788 wrote:honda has been making their cars front wheel drive for a long time , i guess it helps with fuel economy and it definitely helps with slippery roads because the engine weight is over the drive tires. the s2000 was introduced in early 1999. during the development of the s2000 engineers were thinking about making the prelude RWD but the designers thought that it would have taken away sales from their upcoming roadster

Honda has been re-using gearboxes and drivetrains for a long time, and it's much cheaper to build a car on an already established drivetrain; in this case, the Accord. I'll grant you fuel economy but who in gods name buys a sports car for its fuel economy? The S2k barely had a sales market anyway, and in all honesty was a bit of a flop so I doubt making more facelifted versions of the same old,tired and nigh-on dead FWD "sports" car would have taken many buyers away.

xHaZxMaTx · Post by **xHaZxMaTx** » 06 Jun 2007, 14:34

Flame wars! $\:D/$ Not really...

darknight, you seem to be the only person 'round here doing any bashing, and losing your temper, to boot. No, I'm not choosing sides, but based off steelsnake's and Grez's history of automotive know-how and their (for the most part) calm way of handling these sorts of situations, I'd take their side long before I would yours. Now I'm not saying you're wrong, but your way of handling things and all the [supposed] misinformation you've given doesn't really work well in your favour.

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 06 Jun 2007, 18:55

darknight788 wrote:now you are doing the typical US bashing and all that other shiznit , why dont you grow up once

Where have I bashed the US?

Your car doesnt displace anything, because I would put my house on you not being able to drive, let alone be a mechanic. Stay in school and all that.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 07 Jun 2007, 00:29

cool i get your house, i drove the damn thing today 80 miles.
and you are thinking about a different conversion

@ haz i wouldnt argue it if i believed i am right, grez is talking about a totally different conversion than what i did.

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 07 Jun 2007, 12:03

Theres only one conversation here...give it up already.

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 07 Jun 2007, 13:45

DK788 I can only remember one Prelude ever actually being posted in the "what do you drive" thread and it had a crap bodykit and scissor doors.
Was it yours?

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 07 Jun 2007, 19:54

heh ? no i would never do that shiznit
grez you should really read this thread it further proves there is more than one conversion http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/510617

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 08 Jun 2007, 11:11

What the...? I couldve sworn your post said ''conversation'' and not ''conversion''...

Anyway, yes I know theres plenty of conversions on the Honda. The original 'frankenstein' though is the B16/B18.

That aside, I still dont believe youre a mechanic, or even have a licence.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 08 Jun 2007, 19:38

o so now you admit it the original frankenstein

i told you there were others and you didnt believe me.

and i guess i really cant prove im a mechanic or have my livense so o well no big deal. and if you dont know im not a car mecahnic or truck mechanic im a truck technician. theres a difference mechanics are the ones that do grunt work technicians figure out the problems that nobody else can, thats why i make the big bucks. i dont pretend to know everything about cars because well some imports are rather retarded, but i do know everything about the big rigs.

this topic is no longer debateable on to something else. i read this is it true ?

RMcG
Addict | Posts: 3126 | Joined: 4/23/2006 Posted On: 06/08/2007
04:08 AM
I'm getting worried.

The European Parliament is shortly doing to debate a bill to forbid the manufacture of any car capable of more than 100mph. Of the two last places on earth where you could drive hard, Australia finally speed limited the big straight roads in the outback, and there is political pressure to limit the autobahns.

Are the auto manufacturers going the way of big tobacco, to be demonized by the green lobby, and the enjoyment of fast cars to be politically incorrect, the way SUVs are in Europe already?

Already the UK has a surveillance camera for every 12 people , and speed limits are so ruthlessly enforced by cameras that the insurance industry has come to the conclusion that the number of demerits is no longer a good guide to unsafe driving. The UK police use ANPR in every car, recording and tracking the tags on ever car they pass.
Every big city is looking at London's congestion charge strategy.

Yet, today, the selection of wonderful cars, from the fabulously expensive to the entry level hot hatch, has never been better. Why are they being built and sold in record numbers?,,because people want them!.
I think we are going to end up like the dreary, boring, repressive seventies, where every American car had an 85 mph speedo, gutless 195 hp Ferraris carried posers round the restaurant rows, and smokey had a ball with people doing 58.

Sure, the first attempts will fail. But the trend is in the wrong direction.

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 08 Jun 2007, 21:00

darknight788 wrote:o so now you admit it the original frankenstein i told you there were others and you didnt believe me.

There are other conversions, but the original ''frankenstein'' is the one I mentioned. Ive probably been messing with Hondas since you could first talk...

and i guess i really cant prove im a mechanic or have my livense so o well no big deal. and if you dont know im not a car mecahnic or truck mechanic im a truck technician. theres a difference mechanics are the ones that do grunt work technicians figure out the problems that nobody else can, thats why i make the big bucks. i dont pretend to know everything about cars because well some imports are rather retarded, but i do know everything about the big rigs.

Im even less likely to believe that. You cant even string a legible sentence together, nor comprehend one that someone else has written. The likelihood of you being able to figure anything out is unbelievable.

The number of speed cameras here is probably accurate. They mention ANPR but dont tell you what it is. Its known as ''Automatic Number Plate Recognition'', it reads every plate that goes past it, and alerts the Police if a car has been reported stolen. A lot of people have said that it checks whether the driver is insured too, but I found this to be false a few days ago when I was pulled on the motorway, as they had to phone their database controller to find out if all my particulars were in order.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 08 Jun 2007, 22:01

[quote="Grez~Supra_RZ-S"]First, the 'frankenstein' VTEC conversion has nothing at all to do with H-series engines. The frankenstein mod is a B16A head mated to a CRV B20 block.[quote]

you said it has nothing to do with H series motors i just proved you wrong there is more than one frankenstein the one i did could also be known as the big block frankenstein. and yea you might have messed with them longer .... so what
believe what you want but i could school you when it comes to diesels and transmissions
i would laugh so hard if there is a 100 mph speedlimiter on cars in europe

dude like check out my porsche it goes 100 mph! .... omg thats sooo fast !!!!

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 08 Jun 2007, 22:11

It's just one of those stupid reports which pop out once in a while to create hysteria. As much as people like you to think otherwise, politicians aren't stupid; they know it isn't the speed your doing that kills, it's the conditions and surroundings.

No-one's ever died from driving too fast. They've just been killed by the sudden deceleration which occurs when their ego supasses their driving skill.

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 08 Jun 2007, 22:20

darknight788 wrote: you said it has nothing to do with H series motors i just proved you wrong there is more than one frankenstein

Do you ever actually READ?!

believe what you want but i could school you when it comes to diesels and transmissions

Hmm, Im sure you could.

dude like check out my porsche it goes 100 mph! .... omg thats sooo fast !!!!

Says the person who cant go faster than 55mph on a freeway.

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 08 Jun 2007, 22:36

Darknight:
You made the claim that the original "Frankenstien" is a H22/23 hybrid, which it isn't. Grez has never questioned the existance of other hybrid motors but has always maintained that the original "Frankenstien" engine was a B16/18 hybrid. A little internet research proves him right.

Whatsmore, I've proved you wrong several times concerning diesels and drivetrains.

Remember, you are the kid who things a 5.5ton truck with 300-odd BHP and a diesel engine with a rev range smaller than a coffee cup can do an 8-second 0-60.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 08 Jun 2007, 23:18

some politicians arent stupid but im republican and i think the democrats are full of shiznit but thats a different story that has nothing to do with you.
and its like saying it isnt the fall that hurts its the sudden stop.
i didnt say it was the orginal frankenstein i just said it is one of them and the one i did i wasnt talking about the original one. but him saying a frankenstein conversion has nothing to do with H series motor is flat out wrong i repeatedly told him that and he didnt listen. and since when have you proved me wrong about anything diesel and it cant just pertain to a certain country in an engine i have never seen before.
a 11,000 pound truck ? i never said that for the last time it weighs approximately 6,500 pounds and yes it can do 0-60 in far better time than 8 secs thats actually slow its more around the 7 second range right now not quite as fast as the prelude yet but it will be in a little bit.