I know this is AI, so i wont blame the programmer.

keithhiap · Post by **keithhiap** » 28 Dec 2005, 13:53

You see, i crashes to the wall at the dead end together with the oponent car.
So when i start to make myself turn right, vooom........ he is already ahead of me which is about 90 kmph.

OMFG, i have to press NOS, and the best part is NOS cant even catch up.

lol.

Every race, as long as i am behind the oponent, i will restart.
Chances to catch up is 80%, unless i bang here and there with full throttle.

I can still recall during one of my race with EVO 8, my car specification is supposing to be better then EVO8. Cause i tested out by buying an EVO and upgrade it.

The oponent is far too fast, and i restarted the race more then 10 times.
Finally, i have to use unorthodox way to outbit the oponent.

And during this race, there is no traffic at all compaing to other races.

Anyway, i have own 7 Pink ticket, claiming all the oponents cars.
If i failed to get the pink ticket, i will restart the race.

My objective is to get the 15 cars.

vellu · Post by **vellu** » 28 Dec 2005, 20:03

It's the infamous non-disableable "catch up" feature of the game. Some times it seems to read the distance between the cars incorrectly and the pc drivers get an insane advantage.

SliM_880 · Post by **SliM_880** » 29 Dec 2005, 06:24

Yup but it also depends on the type of car ur using...

Post by **TheStig** » 29 Dec 2005, 08:20

it doesn't matter how fast your car is... if you got (with some kind of cheat, if it even is there) get a MAXXED out car they can still keep up even if they have a lvl 1 car.
but the cars you race against always have some parts you can't buy before you race them. so a test to see if your car is better does not aply and the performance bars are not at all accurate.

Saeidi · Post by **Saeidi** » 29 Dec 2005, 09:08

Unfortunately, this year, AI catch-up problems have been soooooo much of a complain that it matters more than the wall-riding and Ricing in UG2 to many NFS players. If someone figures out how to turn it off in career mode, their name will go down in the book of history!

keithhiap · Post by **keithhiap** » 30 Dec 2005, 07:19

in MW, oponents is smarter then UG.

example, i try to push the oponent to hit the wall, and oponent knows how to brake and slow down

lol

likewise, UG, oponent just stick to you and crashes to the wall.

Post by **TheStig** » 30 Dec 2005, 07:49

but then, you can't push them off the road or simply sideswipe them to make them do a nice 180... you could do that in U1/2 so that they would stay back for a while, the opponents in MW are like they running on a railroad track.

the AI is sometimes impossible not only the catchup but other things also... I often am head on with the blacklist racers (they are the hardest off all AI logically) but when I jump and land I slow down, also logical... but with the same speed same bump the AI next to me goes on with almost the same speed... and once they are a few feet ahead they sprint away and you see the distance climbing like crazy

Today I raced Earl and he pissed me of so much I had to restart the race like 20 times (took me a hour to beat him and get his car (did 3 tries on his Pink slips and did not get it so had to redo the races also for that) I tried it with a at that moment maxxed out (level 2 and most of the junkman parts) A3 and basicly I was raped by Earl but then the A3 simply sucks...
Then I tried the Cayman I won from Baron and I beat him instantly but did not get his car so I restarted and from that moment on the second race (the sprint) I could NOT win it, the I tried it with my Mercedes SL500 wich isn't upgraded alot but I got a 14.70 second lead on the basterd and he managed to get closer every second and around a mile orso before the finish he passed me...cause I was a little slow around a corner (powerslided around the corner to much) and he had a lead of 100m in NO time! I lost my lead in no time almost 15 seconds!! I could see the distance decreasing every time I looked and I wasn't making mistakes...

I know it is hard to make a AI that is competible without being in godmode and making every corner correct.
and a system that makes a AI challeging is fine with me so that they can keep up pretty well but the way AI is programmed in MW is simply cheating just like it was in U1... but I got the feeling it is even worse... cause they made them like said before also smarter... smarter is not bad also... but a smart cheater that can do stuff that is not possible like gaining on you when you are doing 320 kmh while his max speed is 290! (I know cause I got his car afterwards

and going around some corners without braking and accelerating out of it like it is a streigt, they are simply glued to the track...

Sir Ibi · Post by **Sir Ibi** » 30 Dec 2005, 08:00

Like you mentioned, the main problem with the AI, is the fact that they hardly ever slow down when it comes to tigh turns. That's also the reason why they either crash so much or slow down to a crawl during hairpins. Every other turn that is less than 90 degrees they manage to do without breaking at all.

Post by **TheStig** » 30 Dec 2005, 08:08

yeah forgot about hairpins, AI can't do that... and ever noticed that certain Blacklist members always crash on certain parts of certain tracks... for instance Izzy always crashes in the second race near the busstation (and the gaspumps) you make a 90deg + corner on the gras and almost always oversteers and spins out... (raced her several times now and like 2 times she managed not to crash there)
Baron crashed near the end of the first race (sprint near the steel bridge (near lighthouse) he suddenly oversteers and spinsout into a tollbooth, seen this happen 3 times... (wanted his car so restarted the races against him a few times till I got his car (The Cayman is one of the few must have cars for me...

)

haven't noticed any on other Blacklist racers but got the feeling they are programmed diffirently then the other AI

Sir Ibi · Post by **Sir Ibi** » 30 Dec 2005, 09:30

Actually I've also noticed that too, but not when the crash. For instance the blacklist driver with the DB9 (forgot his name) usually drives with pin point accuracy during the first part of the track, absolutly ripping me to shreads, but all of a sudden in one particular straigt he just slows down for some reason, whethere he's in the lead or not

And its only that one part of the track.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 30 Dec 2005, 11:01

I believe that's Ronnie you're referring to.

I don't know why, but if you race his 3rd and last circuit race, there'll be a 180 degree turn that we have to make.. Strangely after that, he just zooms past me like crazy! I even used NOS with full power, and I still can;t even catch him! And to my horror, the distance meter just kept increasing his lead!

I took me more than 5 re-races to finally beating him.

Saeidi · Post by **Saeidi** » 31 Dec 2005, 01:11

The AI is honestly very strange. Many times I have crashed into the wall slowing me down...and the AI also slows down waiting for me to catch up to him

.

Fishwhiz · Post by **Fishwhiz** » 31 Dec 2005, 05:50

just a question, what is AI?

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 31 Dec 2005, 05:57

Artificial Intelligence?

SliM_880 · Post by **SliM_880** » 31 Dec 2005, 07:58

Tunerfreak · Post by **Tunerfreak** » 31 Dec 2005, 12:43

Sometimes I wonder if the performance of the car and the mods installed even play a part in the AI's car. They seem to have an average performance of your ride no matter what. Id bet a big ute AI and a little Mini AI would perform the same racing the same gamers car in both circumstances.

In some places, the catch up feature can make or break your race. In a speedbreaker event you would hope to be slightly behind and gaining as passing the speed point, instead of slightly in front and falling back.

Saeidi · Post by **Saeidi** » 01 Jan 2006, 05:24

^^^ It's performance matching in AI^^^

Or atleast that's what I think it is

Sir Ibi · Post by **Sir Ibi** » 01 Jan 2006, 05:55

I would imagine performance mathcing is pre-programmed into the game. I think the AI is mainly based on a car following a route of a race track, set to avoid obstacles, brake, accelerate, turn and absolulty kick your ass

Tunerfreak · Post by **Tunerfreak** » 01 Jan 2006, 07:48

^ And that would involve absolutly no variables in weight, width and other vehicle differences.

Sir Ibi · Post by **Sir Ibi** » 01 Jan 2006, 08:59

well I guess it would, but again that will be pre-defined variables by the programmer. My programming knowledge isn't brilliant, but AI in games like this, basically involves them interacting with those pre set variables.

Tunerfreak · Post by **Tunerfreak** » 01 Jan 2006, 09:10

You lost me on 'well'.

Your programming skills beat the hell out of mine.

Bauke777 · Post by **Bauke777** » 03 Jan 2006, 02:34

There prolly were a couple of words on the whiteboard of the EA dev team for AI cars: "competetive and challenging". That would definately be the magic words for an AI car. The car's behaviour can be anything, as long as it is challenging for the gamer. So like some1 said b/4, u can have the infinite nitrous thing, but no, the AI car is still going to whoop ur ass if u don't watch it

AI is such a fun subject when it is applied in games or movies. U guys know the battles in the Lord of the Rings movies (of course u do duh). These orcs are AI too (duh again). They have their own behaviour when they encounter an enemy: attack if possible, defend when attacked. So the developers took like a 1000 of AI orcs and put them onto a battlefield for testing. They swithed the "ON" button et voila: "nice" and realistic fighting was the result. b/c they all had their own behaviour, the AI orcs acted on their own, enemies everywhere so there was enough to do on the battlefield. Orc1 saw orc2, orc1 slased, orc2 dodged the attack, orc2 hacked, hit orc1 etcetc. But after some time, when the developers looked closer, some were running away! The developers were absolutely baffled! They must have thought: "erm... we erm didn't create deserters and coward, now did we... " But then realized they themselves had given them the realistic behaviour to first try and fight, but if a fight was a certain loss: flee for its AI-life

So it is really difficult to create a realistic AI opponent that does just as a human would do. Thank God AI isn't self-aware (Terminator's Skynet, Matrix movies etc)! So I respect the AI programmers @ EA, but this whole discussion does point out the exact reason why I prefer to race humans online. Only problem w/ certain human opponents: they cheat!

Post by **TheStig** » 03 Jan 2006, 07:40

It is really hard to build a competitive AI and make it usefull.

in a way EA did a good job, AI is competitive, but sometimes unrealisticly competitive the they ignore some of the laws of physics...
they made a AI that is challenging for every racer it doesn't matter if you are a noob or a pro racer, but then I think a difficulty setting would be better, where in easy they simply drive slower or take corners less perfectly and on hard they get the most out of their car and they take corners alot better like a real racing driver.
I don't mind a AI that is on my tail but when it crashes (can happen to the best of us) they should not be allowed to get a jet engine and fly towards you in a few seconds when you get a big lead.
same goes for dodging traffic in MW it is not so bad as it was in U1/2 but they still can see traffic when in they should not be able to see it around a corner orso. it is most likely a glitch in the building of the world that they see trought corners orso... like I said it is not as bad as in U2 or U1 but it still happens they suddenly change lanes and you crash into the traffic (that was placed there EXACTLY where the best line of the corner is ( a other thing to annoy you as driver.. EA started that joke in U1 with huge success... who didn't crash against traffic that was EXACTLY there where you wanted to go...

)

Sir Ibi · Post by **Sir Ibi** » 03 Jan 2006, 08:31

There's no difficutly option in the career mode was there? Hmmm only in Quick Race where you able to determine the difficulty, traffic and the cath up feature.

I do want the cars to be challenging, otherwise it won't be anyfun at all, but it can become insanly frustrating when they make it difficult with other means, such as using traffic and cath up feature.

All they had to do was give the option to change the difficulty and cathup feature on and off in the career mode. If they also had this for Quick Race how hard was it going to be?

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 03 Jan 2006, 11:13

TheStig wrote:but then I think a difficulty setting would be better, where in easy they simply drive slower or take corners less perfectly and on hard they get the most out of their car and they take corners alot better like a real racing driver.

Sir Ibi wrote: here's no difficutly option in the career mode was there? Hmmm only in Quick Race where you able to determine the difficulty, traffic and the cath up feature.

I agree...

One of the things I liked about UG1 was that we get to choose the difficulty. The higher the difficulty, the more money we'll get. That way we'll have more chance in winning the game. I'm just sad that they have left out this feature.