NFS:MW online vs offline - BMW M3 vs Carerra GT

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 07 Feb 2006, 13:40

I did some testing with the BMW M3 GTR and fully souped up Porsche Carerra GT both online with peformance matching on, and offline which is peformance matching off. In the case of the BMW M3 GTR, online and offline peformance and lap times are about the same, maybe just a tad faster and more oversteery online, but less than 1% faster based on my lap times. The Porsce Carerra GT I tested has all ultimate and junkman parts installed, plus I set height all the way left, aerodynamics and turbo all the way right. The Carerra GT is severely penalized online, less power, less grip, and more loss of speed while cornering (probably because you have to steer more to make up for less grip). The result is when online with performance matching on, the BMW M3 GTR is faster than the detuned Carerra GT. With peformance matching off, or when offline, the Carerra GT blows the doors off the BMW M3 GTR. To test this, I did a (standting start) single lap race offline at Country Club with the BMW M3 GTR and the Porsche Carrera GT. I got a 2:07.39 in the BMW M3 GTR, and a 1:57.64 in the Porsche Carerra GT with some NOS left over, 9 seconds faster than the BMW M3 GTR. I made videos of these runs:

BMW M3 GTR - standing start lap at Country Club - 2:07.39
n9ccbmw.wmv

Porsce Carerra GT - standing start lap at Country Club - 1:57.64
n9ccpgt.wmv

Based on Ceano's suggestion I tried a hacked BMW M3 GTR with 6/7 uniquies (you can't put a turbo charger on it or else the game will crash).

hacked BMW M3 GTR with 6/7 uniques - standing start lap at Country Club - 1:59.49
n9ccm3u.wmv

smithsyscom · Post by **smithsyscom** » 07 Feb 2006, 16:24

Nice video, thx. But I feel it is difficult to direct compare these two cars because they have different N2O size. M3 also don't have Junkman parts.

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 07 Feb 2006, 17:04

Any way how can you say that the "Carrera GT blows the doors off the BMW M3" when it's just 9 seconds?

I have done the same lap with my BMW that have all junkman parts except turbo (that cant be used on the BMW) in 2 minutes flat, and remember BMW has only standard NOS and not stage 5 NOS that the Carrera has.

EDIT: OK did the lap again just to have a screen shot to show you the time, and guess what.....i did it in 1.56.23

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 07 Feb 2006, 17:22

Ceano wrote:Any way how can you say that the "Carrera GT blows the doors off the BMW M3" when it's just 9 seconds?

9 seconds is huge in racing terms. Look at the difference in speed. The BMW is running about 199mph just past the construction on the first big straight, the Porsche is 230mph there. BMW exits this decreasing radius left bend at 193mph, the Porsche at 205mph. The Porche is 10mph to 20mph faster than the BMW in many places.

I have done the same lap with my BMW that have all junkman parts except turbo (that cant be used on the BMW) in 2 minutes flat, and remember BMW has only original NOS and not stage 5 NOS that the Carrera has.

Was this a standing start lap or a flying start (lap 2 or later) lap? I get 2:05's on flying start laps with the stock BMW. Edit: from the picture it's clear that it was from a standing start.

How do you get junkman parts onto a BMW? I'd be interested in trying this offline (probably wouldn't affect online because of the peformanace matching).

Doesn't matter that much, my point was about the game as is, that the peformance matching just slows down the faster cars, and slower cars don't require as much skill because your flat out more often and don't have to learn the tracks as well.

In my opinion, there shouldn't have been a peformance matching option, becuse just like every other racing game, players should either do career mode to unlock the fastest cars, or download a savegame with the career mode completed.

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 07 Feb 2006, 17:29

OK did the lap again just to have a screen shot to show you the time, and guess what.....i did it in 1.56.23

Yes, but it's a hacked car (242mph in a BMW M3?), not part of the game. I could use a +19 trainer with super-acceleration and post a really fast time, but my post was basically an attempt to explain what the peformance matching does online, and how the cars compare with and without it. I already stated that it seems that the BMW M3 GTR is fastest with peformance matching on. However, it may be possible to tune the settings for the GT or the Elise to make them competitive. The handling could be moved one click left of center to reduce speed loss in turns as long as the cars can still hold the turns. Reducing aerodynamics may help deal with the lower power. Gearing will still be an issue, as it's too tall for a detuned car.

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 07 Feb 2006, 17:32

jeffr wrote:How do you get junkman parts onto a BMW? I'd be interested in trying this offline (probably wouldn't affect online because of the peformanace matching).

1# To add the junkman parts you have to hex edit the save.
2# True, it makes no difference if you use it online because all cars that are joining in at a race levels up to the best car.

jeffr wrote:In my opinion, there shouldn't have been a peformance matching option, becuse just like every other racing game, players should either do career mode to unlock the fastest cars, or download a savegame with the career mode completed.

Totally agree with you there, except for the part that any one could use any save (to get the best cars you should do the career by your self).

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 07 Feb 2006, 17:38

jeffr wrote:Yes, but it's a hacked car (242mph in a BMW M3?), not part of the game. I could use a +19 trainer with super-acceleration and post a really fast time, but my post was basically an attempt to explain what the peformance matching does online, and how the cars compare with and without it. I already stated that it seems that the BMW M3 GTR is fastest with peformance matching on. However, it may be possible to tune the settings for the GT or the Elise to make them competitive. The handling could be moved one click left of center to reduce speed loss in turns as long as the cars can still hold the turns. Reducing aerodynamics may help deal with the lower power. Gearing will still be an issue, as it's too tall for a detuned car.

OK but why should the BMW not be able to use turbo and all other tuner stuff like any other car? I have just added parts that is in the game that any car can have, what is the cheat with that?

smithsyscom · Post by **smithsyscom** » 07 Feb 2006, 17:45

jeffr wrote:In my opinion, there shouldn't have been a peformance matching option, becuse just like every other racing game, players should either do career mode to unlock the fastest cars, or download a savegame with the career mode completed.

I think it is nothing wrong with performance match, it make sure fair play. The only thing wrong is EA pick the wrong car.

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 07 Feb 2006, 17:51

smithsyscom wrote:
jeffr wrote:In my opinion, there shouldn't have been a peformance matching option, becuse just like every other racing game, players should either do career mode to unlock the fastest cars, or download a savegame with the career mode completed.
I think it is nothing wrong with performance match, it make sure fair play. The only thing wrong is EA pick the wrong car.

Yes but the performance match doesn't seam to work for NOS, i have raced against a guy that had unlimited NOS. I was on hes tail the whole race throe and he had the red NOS beam from start to finish. (that's cheating)

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 07 Feb 2006, 18:23

True, it makes no difference if you use it online because all cars that are joining in at a race levels up to the best car.

The peformance mactching always uses the BMW M3 GTR as the standard, regardless of what cars are actually in a race, so it's not really peformance matching, it's peformance standard, except the BMW M3 GTR gets an advantage over the other cars the way it's currently implemented.

fair play, wrong car

Don't need it. Everyone could use the Carerra GT with all junkman parts.

fair play, cheating

Peformance matching has nothing to do with the cheating, it just sets the power, nos, and grip to the same or slightly less than the BMW M3 GTR. It doesn't stop the trainers used to cheat.

One very common cheat is to remove traffic from drag races (done with a editted gameplay.bin file, no trainer required), which I consider an improvement to the game, the traffic was just annoying.

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 07 Feb 2006, 18:33

jeffr wrote:
True, it makes no difference if you use it online because all cars that are joining in at a race levels up to the best car.
The peformance mactching always uses the BMW M3 GTR as the standard, regardless of what cars are actually in a race, so it's not really peformance matching, it's peformance standard, except the BMW M3 GTR gets an advantage over the other cars the way it's currently implemented.

As i wrote "The best car"

smithsyscom · Post by **smithsyscom** » 07 Feb 2006, 18:44

jeffr wrote:
fair play, wrong car
Don't need it. Everyone could use the Carerra GT with all junkman parts.

That the point, I would like to see "real" performance match such that everyone can use any car to race. Since it is just a game, sometimes it is boring to always race against M3 or Carerra GT. Think about win a Porsche with VW

Post by **GT3x24x7** » 07 Feb 2006, 23:34

jeffr wrote:The peformance mactching always uses the BMW M3 GTR as the standard, regardless of what cars are actually in a race, so it's not really peformance matching, it's peformance standard, except the BMW M3 GTR gets an advantage over the other cars the way it's currently implemented.

Are you sure about this Jeff? I've run in online races between Carrera GTs only, and I'm certain they ran faster than if a BMW was present. Also, try running a Camaro-only race online - there's no way they're matched to a BMW in that situation.

@Ceano: Do what you like offline, just don't bring hacked cars online, k?

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 07 Feb 2006, 23:59

GT3x24x7 wrote: @Ceano: Do what you like offline, just don't bring hacked cars online, k?

Not that it does matter because all cars that are in the race is equal, no one is better then the other. This is how EA has set up online race so there cant be any cheating no matter what you do, the only thing that you can cheat with is unlimited NOS.

But i have one BMW for single player that is both tuned and styled, and then i have one online BMW that is just styled (rims, vinyl and so).

But it isn't often i have time for online play as you know.

Post by **GT3x24x7** » 08 Feb 2006, 00:10

Ceano wrote:But it isn't often i have time for online play as you know.

Yup.

The Gravedigger · Post by **The Gravedigger** » 08 Feb 2006, 00:14

Ceano wrote:Not that it does matter because all cars that are in the race is equal, no one is better then the other. This is how EA has set up online race so there cant be any cheating no matter what you do, the only thing that you can cheat with is unlimited NOS.

I beg to differ.....

There has been hacked cars and a shipload that have (in my accounts) kept their shiznit tools...... and no balancing occured only for myself and another racer (Luckily it was a drag, and I pwned him with a nice 350+ run pulling in a personal best of 16.28 seconds run in my pride and joy the Corvette C6)

Then the same guy again... used either the mega trainer (which I thought was disabled online) or something very similar.... because at the very hint of a reset.... his car either accelerated off into 200+k's (off a restart....) without NOS

That is the only other reason why I disbanded from playing online

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 08 Feb 2006, 03:28

GT3x24x7 wrote:
jeffr wrote:The peformance mactching always uses the BMW M3 GTR as the standard, regardless of what cars are actually in a race, so it's not really peformance matching, it's peformance standard, except the BMW M3 GTR gets an advantage over the other cars the way it's currently implemented.
Are you sure about this Jeff? I've run in online races between Carrera GTs only, and I'm certain they ran faster than if a BMW was present. Also, try running a Camaro-only race online - there's no way they're matched to a BMW in that situation.

I also tested in a race with two maxed out GT's, and they were slowed down by the same amount, with or without the presence of other cars.

@Ceano: Do what you like offline, just don't bring hacked cars online, k?

It won't matter, the peformance matching doesn't use the cars peformance data. Players use trainers to cheat, editting car peformance data won't help online.

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 08 Feb 2006, 10:11

jeffr wrote:
GT3x24x7 wrote: @Ceano: Do what you like offline, just don't bring hacked cars online, k?
It won't matter, the peformance matching doesn't use the cars peformance data. Players use trainers to cheat, editting car peformance data won't help online.

Exactly my point, i hate cheaters and have never cheated online in any game. That's just for losers, i don't even use trainers or so in single player mode just because you now to your self that you haven't done the task by your self.

My first online experience with MW i did race against a cheater that used a trainer to get unlimited nos, it was just a sprint race but i almost beat him any way (it was less then a second between us). But that time did ruin the online fun for me, and if there is one cheater who knows how many there is.

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 08 Feb 2006, 16:47

Ceano wrote:
jeffr wrote:How do you get junkman parts onto a BMW? I'd be interested in trying this offline.
1# To add the junkman parts you have to hex edit the save.

Ok, I tried this and the game just crashes every time I try to exit the garage. Can you send me a save file with a BMW with upgraded parts?

email addy: jeffareid@jeffareid.net

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 08 Feb 2006, 18:22

jeffr wrote:
Ceano wrote:
jeffr wrote:How do you get junkman parts onto a BMW? I'd be interested in trying this offline.
1# To add the junkman parts you have to hex edit the save.
Ok, I tried this and the game just crashes every time I try to exit the garage. Can you send me a save file with a BMW with upgraded parts?

email addy: jeffareid@jeffareid.net

I have a thread here http://forum.nfsunlimited.net/viewtopic.php?t=10471 in the first post you can download a save.

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 09 Feb 2006, 14:46

OK did the lap again just to have a screen shot to show you the time, 1.56.23

You must be fast, I can't get sub 1:57's without using speedbreaker. Here's a run with with a BMW with uniques at 1:59.49, about as good as it's going to get for me. Maybe you can tell me what I'm doing different. I improved the Porsche Carerra GT time to 1:57.64, cleaner line and better usage of NOS.

Then again, the difference could be similar to NFS7:U1, where car perfomance is affected by the system the game is played on.

Lastly, how did you enable aerodynamics on the racing BMW M3? I noted that there are 3 of these, on stock, two racing versions. Does one of the racing versions allow you to add a spoiler, like the slower stock one does?

hacked BMW M3 GTR with 6/7 uniques - standing start lap at Country Club - 1:59.49
n9ccm3u.wmv

Porsce Carerra GT - standing start lap at Country Club - 1:57.64
n9ccpgt.wmv

Ceano · Post by **Ceano** » 09 Feb 2006, 15:01

jeffr wrote:
OK did the lap again just to have a screen shot to show you the time, 1.56.23
You must be fast, I can't get sub 1:57's without using speedbreaker. Here's a run with with a BMW with uniques at 1:59.49, about as good as it's going to get for me. Maybe you can tell me what I'm doing different. I improved the Porsche Carerra GT time to 1:57.64, cleaner line and better usage of NOS.

Then again, the difference could be similar to NFS7:U1, where car perfomance is affected by the system the game is played on.

Lastly, how did you enable aerodynamics on the racing BMW M3? I noted that there are 3 of these, on stock, two racing versions. Does one of the racing versions allow you to add a spoiler, like the slower stock one does?

hacked BMW M3 GTR with 6/7 uniques - standing start lap at Country Club - 1:59.49
n9ccm3u.wmv

Porsce Carerra GT - standing start lap at Country Club - 1:57.64
n9ccpgt.wmv

When i did that run i was rely lucky, haven't being able to do it again after that. I did almost never lift the foot of the gas pedal (only in the v shaped curvs) and used the NOS as soon it had reached top level again and again, i regret that i didn't use fraps when i did the race but i think that slows down the time to (but i'm not sure).

You can fix so that any of the BMW cars can use down force with hex editing, you put on a spoiler but it is not showing up/change in game (you just get the option of tuning it).

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 09 Feb 2006, 16:07

You can fix so that any of the BMW cars can use down force with hex editing, you put on a spoiler but it is not showing up/change in game (you just get the option of tuning it).

I never kept any info about car parts in general, just the performance parts, which are just coded values 0 through 3 and junkman parts, just single bits in a byte, not any actual codes. I did note that changing ther rims did change the look, anyway to change the rims on a racing BMW? I'll have to research this again when I get time.

I might make a video of the Lotus Elise, which is another fast car, down a bit on power, but it outcorners every other car in the game.

fraps when i did the race but i think that slows down the time too

I haven't noticed this, but I have a fast system with hyperthreading enabled, which fraps takes advantage of (as well as the ATI video drivers).

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » 10 Feb 2006, 05:27

Ok, found the parts info for the "racing" BMW you win (doesn't require a garage hack). Not much you can do, change the rims and they just dissappear. You can't paint the stock rims either. As you mentioned, you can change the spoiler, but it doesn't show. Can't add any peformance parts other than the unique parts (can't add the unqiue supercharger or the game will crash).