American Cars or European Cars?

[Koenigsegg_Rox]

Can't decide whether thats the best or the worst idea they've had...on the plus side, Saleen know how to build fast cars, on the down side the Viper is one of the ONLY things that actually give Dodge a slightly-better-than-crap name... I mean look at some of their latest creations: Nitro (crap), Caliber (crap), Charger (OK, but still not as outstanding as the Viper). The Viper and the Challenger SRT8 are the only things really keeping the company from falling into malevolous pit of crap-ness...

[TONTO89]

Can't decide whether thats the best or the worst idea they've had...on the plus side, Saleen know how to build fast cars, on the down side the Viper is one of the ONLY things that actually give Dodge a slightly-better-than-crap name... I mean look at some of their latest creations: Nitro (crap), Caliber (crap), Charger (OK, but still not as outstanding as the Viper). The Viper and the Challenger SRT8 are the only things really keeping the company from falling into malevolous pit of crap-ness...

haha check this out tho (from the new york times 1991): "The Viper, developed in part by Chrysler's Lamborghini subsidiary in Italy, is expected to cost between $30,000 and $40,000"
haha so its not even a fully american car! at least dodge didn't use their relations with mitsubishi to develop it... lol

I personally think just about all american cars these days are crap (and I live here in america) lol
I love BMW and Audi a ton! and plus europe has cars like the Zonda and CCX! easy choice is european cars.

but I must say theres nothing like the sound of an OLD american V8 idleing

[steelsnake00]

I like exclaimation marks too!

Plus that viper-lamborghini link is utter rubbish.

[XCROSSX]

I dunno why but american cars feel more stylish to me. And God bless the corvette sound

[Striker94]

You like American cars more, and yet you have a Mazda Furai as your sig...

Anyhow, I don't see American cars dominating the global scene. Seriously, even is America European cars are slowly overtaking American ones...

[baumaxx1]

You like American cars more, and yet you have a Mazda Furai as your sig...

Japanese cars aren't a choice here Striker.

[Koenigsegg_Rox]

You like American cars more, and yet you have a Mazda Furai as your sig...

Anyhow, I don't see American cars dominating the global scene. Seriously, even is America European cars are slowly overtaking American ones...

Actually technically Aussie muscle (well....Holdens) are doing better than American muscle globally. The Vauxhall VXR, Pontiac G8 = HSV GTS, and look at how well they're doing...

[XCROSSX]

You like American cars more, and yet you have a Mazda Furai as your sig...

Anyhow, I don't see American cars dominating the global scene. Seriously, even is America European cars are slowly overtaking American ones...

Actually I like the cars that are beautiful IMO. I say that Ferrari isn't quite a big deal on design, but that's just my opinion.

Also, check out: Cadillac CTS-V (fastest sedan on Nurburging), Corvette ZR-1 (second fastest stock car on Nurburgring) and of course Viper ACR.

[baumaxx1]

Ferrari design goes by the philosophy; "Simplicity is the greatest form of elegance". Basically a harmony between performance and elegance. I looked into their design house for my italian research task, lol.

[Koenigsegg_Rox]

Actually ZR1 isn't technically a "stock" car, it's basically a tuned Z06. And is it faster than the R35 GT-R?

[steelsnake00]

Actually ZR1 isn't technically a "stock" car, it's basically a tuned Z06. And is it faster than the R35 GT-R?

The ZR1 is faster than an R35 GT-R, yes.

[boganbusman]

Also a fair bit more expensive . . .

[xHaZxMaTx]

It's also American, meaning it'll fall apart about four times faster.

[boganbusman]

Hah, that reminds me: Apparently the gearbox used in the new GTR is known for eating itself if you use it with the traction/stability/whatever control turned off. Turning it off also voids your warranty, and the car has a black box type of thing so the dealership knows exactly what you've done with it.


Guess who makes the transmission?

BorgWarner.

I will also, however, shame Nissan for using their product when it can't hold up to the rest of the car.

[XCROSSX]

Ferrari design goes by the philosophy; "Simplicity is the greatest form of elegance". Basically a harmony between performance and elegance. I looked into their design house for my italian research task, lol.

The only ferrari's I find beautiful are F50 and 599... And where's the simplicity in Enzo? It's not simple, it's just built so for aero...

Actually ZR1 isn't technically a "stock" car, it's basically a tuned Z06. And is it faster than the R35 GT-R?

More like a tuned C6... But still it has different engine, different body, different suspension, brakes, tires, gearbox... These all make it a different car

Hah, that reminds me: Apparently the gearbox used in the new GTR is known for eating itself if you use it with the traction/stability/whatever control turned off. Turning it off also voids your warranty, and the car has a black box type of thing so the dealership knows exactly what you've done with it.

IMO that's just a myth... Well, all we have to do is to ask Mythbusters to test it

[Koenigsegg_Rox]

Also a fair bit more expensive . . .

Erm, what? On Top Gear they said the ZR1 was 100,000 US, which is, depending on how the Aussie dollar is doing nowadays, about 130,000 AU? The R35 GT-R is 150,000 AU.

[RedCarDriver]

1. The GT-R transmission does get shredded at higher HP ratings, the tranny just wasn't built for it. Why they didn't use a Getrag transmission like (AFAIK) the R34 is beyond me. Heck, why they didn't use just a standard manual transmission instead of a semi-auto-something-or-other is beyond me, also - one is usually more durable and a heck of a lot cheaper.

2. Viper ACR is cool, yes, but not terribly interesting to me.

3. Yeah, American cars' styling has gotten better (okay, only on the performance vehicles). I still don't think the styling is great though. Mostly, I feel, all styling is getting worse around them:
Ferrari's styling, while beautiful in the Enzo and F430 Scuderia (not a fan of the rear on the Scuderia though), started getting ugly when they adopted the bug-eyed-ness seen in the 612, 599 GTB, and (sadly) California (the 599 is a little better than the other two about it though). Subaru's styling is... well, you have all seen the GRB (which I admit looks cool from the front but the rear taillights must be fixed somehow). Nissan's styling I wouldn't call great but it's not terrible either. Honda's is okay now, and the new Civic Sedan is far less boring than the previous Civic Sedans (when not in silver and the Si trim level helps). Toyota, as with their performance, only makes one decent car as far as I'm concerned and that's the IS F (like their performance quality, styling dropped severely when all 2JZ-powered models were dropped).

4. ZR-1 is far more expensive than the GT-R and has way more horsepower, it's not fair to compare them (heck, it's in supercar territory now while the GT-R is now juuuuust below that, as the bar has risen considerably since 2004).

[XCROSSX]

3. Yeah, American cars' styling has gotten better (okay, only on the performance vehicles).

And the europeans are getting worse... Have you seen Merc Concept Fascination? It has square Lexus GS headlights... BMW is making almost only SUV's... Lamborghini making a 4-door car that is also very ugly IMO... And I heard a while ago that Porsche plans to make a hatchback... The end of the world is close...

[TheStig]

Mate you are talking about concepts, concepts are often very ugly, doesn't matter if they are from europe, asia or America.

Toyota, as with their performance, only makes one decent car as far as I'm concerned and that's the IS F (like their performance quality, styling dropped severely when all 2JZ-powered models were dropped).

Never knew the engine was a part of the styling of a car....

[baumaxx1]

Ferrari design goes by the philosophy; "Simplicity is the greatest form of elegance". Basically a harmony between performance and elegance. I looked into their design house for my italian research task, lol.

The only ferrari's I find beautiful are F50 and 599... And where's the simplicity in Enzo? It's not simple, it's just built so for aero...

Exactly... the enzo is 100% performance.

1. The GT-R transmission does get shredded at higher HP ratings, the tranny just wasn't built for it. Why they didn't use a Getrag transmission like (AFAIK) the R34 is beyond me. Heck, why they didn't use just a standard manual transmission instead of a semi-auto-something-or-other is beyond me, also - one is usually more durable and a heck of a lot cheaper.

Because this transmission is faster than a conventional manual. Double clutch or something. For a stockie, it's fine... and technologically advanced. Improves weight distribuition etc. etc. If you're going to double it's power output... maybe not... but that's like with many gearboxes that aren't as over-engineered as the supra ones.

[boganbusman]

Also a fair bit more expensive . . .

Erm, what? On Top Gear they said the ZR1 was 100,000 US, which is, depending on how the Aussie dollar is doing nowadays, about 130,000 AU? The R35 GT-R is 150,000 AU.

In Japan the GTR costs about US$75,000 iirc.

Because this transmission is faster than a conventional manual. Double clutch or something.

Ya, the DSG can shift much faster than a regular manual. Even Tsuchiya has praised the performance of DSG 'boxes.
This greatly contributes to the speed of the GTR, but unfortunately not the reliability.

[t3ice]

In Japan the GTR costs about US$75,000 iirc.

Not just japan. The dealership near me's got one for about $77k - here

[steelsnake00]

Because this transmission is faster than a conventional manual. Double clutch or something. For a stockie, it's fine... and technologically advanced. Improves weight distribuition etc. etc. If you're going to double it's power output... maybe not... but that's like with many gearboxes that aren't as over-engineered as the supra ones.

It's very similar to the audi DSG transmission, which was also developed by BorgWarner and can take well over 600bhp without a problem. It's heavier than a standard box but it works in a similar way to a racing SMG box- but with the ability of droping gears out of sync. It means you get SMG speed changes but can skip gears, basically. Which makes them much more useful in day-to-day driving.

Incidently, the only double-clutch box not built by BorgWarner is the one on the Bugatti Veyron. BMW are soon releaseing a Getrag double clutch box to replace the old SMG system for the M3.

[Striker94]

hmmm, why isn't there Japanese cars as an option? With the new GT-R, it would be a viable option.

Anyways, the ZR1 has a whole lot more pwer and torque than the GTR, but it's RWD. It's also got pushrods, instead of overhead cams. BUT, it's got a great bloody supercharger. the GT-R has AWD and the dual-clutch gizmo. HOWEVER, the decider is...

The ZR1 lapped the Nurburgring faster than the GT-R...

And it's about the same price...

For a whole lot more fun...

[steelsnake00]

But come on, which one would you live with on a day-to-day basis. An old-school muscle car with uprated suspention; thats made from sticky back plastic, with a decades old engine mildly pepped up, or a properly scratch built, high-class road racer?