V8 power from a V6 [Ford's TwinForce TT-V6]

[steelsnake00]

"just forget about low power to weight the fact is those low power to weight engines produce the most horsepower in the automotive world"



Who gives a toss when that HP only lasts for about 6 seconds before the engine needs a full rebuild?
Who gives a toss about big HP anyway? No-one, unless your a small-penised yank with a very heavy car.
I have a car which is (for the most part) standard. For it's size, it weighs very little.
I challenge you to find one SINGLE big OR small blocked STANDARD car (road legal, of roughly the same price in Eu) that will beat it round a track when stock, regardless of HP.

[Grez~Supra_RZ-S]

Why would you even be wasting your time looking at these 80's V8's if you want a First Gen Camaro? Thats stupid.

Originally, I had planned on buying a third gen to get used to LHD cars. However, I soon realised just how awful the third gens were/are. The engine I was looking at in a first gen was the 350. I suppose for you Yanks that it i efficient when you compare it to the hordes of other useless engines youve produced over the years. But as a Brit who drives largely Japanese cars, the old V8s seem poor in comparison. I was looking for a 350 rather than a 427 due to the higher revving nature of smaller blocks, but still wanted some low-down torque, so didnt want the 302.

The Corvette was faster then the Turbo Mk3 Supra, the Iroc-Z/GTA and 5.0 Mustang smoked the non-Turbo Supra, the 80's RX7 was a horrid piece of junk with more problems than even F-bodies, 80's 300ZX(Z31) wasn't a bad car at all but it was still slow (weakest turbo model made 160 hp, whoopee), Skyline didn't exist in America, the 200SX is slower then any of the other cars you just listed. At best that thing only put out 160 hp in the late 80's. No one was looking at that car dude it was the 300ZX people wanted. Like I said, the imports weren't any better off in the 80's. The 80's simply sucked for cars end of story. Things finally picked up pace in the early 90's for both Imports and domestic cars. You had the TwinTurbo 300ZX, the MkIV Twin Turbo Supra, the LT1 F-Body, LS1 Corvette, the Mustang's kind of slacked but the Cobras weren't that bad.

The 80s Corvette had a whopping 205bhp, which was good for a mid 15 second quarter mile. For all you V8 heads, thats the same as a mid 90s Honda Civic VTi/SiR. What a muscle car...The Iroc Z was slightly quicker with a low 15, and the Mustang barely even worth mentioning in stock form.

The RS13 Nissan 200SX, which admittedly you guys didnt get (so haha) was born in '89, and would run mid 15s with a 167bhp 1.8L 4 cylinder engine. As an aside note, it takes roughly £1500 to get an RS13 to run mid/late 13s. The FC RX7, despite its ''unreliable'' (read as people who have no idea how to maintain a rotary engine) reputation, it would run the quarter in mid/high 14s. The '89 300ZX (Z32) ran a low 14/high 13 depending on driver/conditions etc. True, the Skyline didnt exist in America, but that detracts from the point. Fact is, in the 1980s, other countries were making better engines/cars than you guys were.

[darknight788]

the main reason for lack of extreme horsepower is because it is a muscle car. it was born in a truck and it was meant for pulling and it had gobs of torque down low. no doubt a little japanese car with their wizz bang engines could out run them they might aswell have been made of tinfoil for how much they weighed .
and those engines dont require a rebiuld every six seconds. only the top fuel dragsters get rebuilt after every run. a 700 horsepower big block can reliably put down power for thousands of miles. now lets see a 700 hp 4 poper do that, gaurantee it'll blow up

[TheStig]

That won't be very weird now does it, if you would have 700hp from a 4 cil...
Because it most likely only has around a max of 2.5ltr wich is around a third of the average american V8 and not to forget HALF the pistons.

In other words its like coparing a ships engine to a V8 car engine and telling, he try to get the same horsepower and torque from your tiny V8 as I have in my straight 12.

But then comparing a ship with the average American sports car isn't so weird, they both have engines that produce alot of torque in low revs and they both are made from the same material

[boganbusman]

Because it most likely only has around a max of 2.5ltr wich is around a third of the average american V8 and not to forget HALF the pistons.

In other words its like coparing a ships engine to a V8 car engine and telling, he try to get the same horsepower and torque from your tiny V8 as I have in my straight 12.

I think darknight has made a perfectly fair comparison. Capacity has nothing to do with it, it's all about cost.

To run and maintian your 700hp 4cyl will cost loads more than a 700hp V8.

Most big or small block V8's = really rather overrated

. . . but now you're just being silly.

Why am I?

American V8's are not efficient, and they're heavy, yes. But what do you get in return?

You get a near-bulletproof motor that will pump out low-down torque all day long. You can neglect it, pour crappy fuel into it, and cane the bumbum out of it. It'll smoke the tyres at will, and produce a fantastic sound in the process.

Who cares if it guzzles gas or pumps out nasty fumes, that's the price you pay for enjoyment. You prefer to spend money on modifications and maintenance, some people just like to spend money on petrol and be done with it. In the end we're all the same, we all spend needless amounts of money on our cars, and we all love it.

[Grez~Supra_RZ-S]

a 700 horsepower big block can reliably put down power for thousands of miles. now lets see a 700 hp 4 poper do that, gaurantee it'll blow up

3S-GTE anyone?

[boganbusman]

a 700 horsepower big block can reliably put down power for thousands of miles. now lets see a 700 hp 4 poper do that, gaurantee it'll blow up

3S-GTE anyone?

I have no doubt that the 3S-GTE can produce 700hp, but will it last as long as a big-block? I'll believe it when I see it.

[steelsnake00]

a 700 horsepower big block can reliably put down power for thousands of miles. now lets see a 700 hp 4 poper do that, gaurantee it'll blow up

3S-GTE anyone?

I have no doubt that the 3S-GTE can produce 700hp, but will it last as long as a big-block? I'll believe it when I see it.

It will, if correctly built, to perfect or near perfect prescision.

As an aside, your quoting of 700bhp is liable to be well off the true total. Though some of the US crate motors were actually putting out greater HP from the crank, they have notoriously huge drivetrain losses.

[boganbusman]

But the drivetrain behind the big-block will most likely be able to take more punshment

[steelsnake00]

But the drivetrain behind the big-block will most likely be able to take more punshment

But it wont be as fast, because it's lost about 30% of it's power in a sludgy auto transmission

[TheStig]

I think darknight has made a perfectly fair comparison. Capacity has nothing to do with it, it's all about cost.

To run and maintian your 700hp 4cyl will cost loads more than a 700hp V8.

Well I forgot it was about costs and reliability, and I also forgot the 3S-GTE is capable of such high HP count, but then I should have known, cause the brittish fensport made several high HP Toyota's with the 3S-GTE engines.
Like a 4WD 650 hp Corolla wich managed to reach 200mph and a 1/4 mile in 10.4
But then I have no clue about the costs and reliability.

But what I ment was that it's abit to easy to say look I tuned a 7.0 ltr V8 and managed to get 700hp from it, let's see you do the same to your 2.0 4 cil... is a bit to easy to compare eh?

[Grez~Supra_RZ-S]

I have no doubt that the 3S-GTE can produce 700hp, but will it last as long as a big-block? I'll believe it when I see it.

Top Secret Supra, any of Fensports demo cars...

[darknight788]

But it wont be as fast, because it's lost about 30% of it's power in a sludgy auto transmission

who the hell would put a auto behind 700 horses. if you know how to handle 700 horses you know how to handle a 5,6 speed manual with a powertrain loss of around 12-15 % which is normal

[PSZeTa]

who the hell would put a auto behind 700 horses. if you know how to handle 700 horses you know how to handle a 5,6 speed manual with a powertrain loss of around 12-15 % which is normal

Location: Minnesota, USA

:p

[darknight788]

what are you saying you would run a stupid slush box behind 700 hp ?

[GT3x24x7]

That depends on what you're gonna do with the car now, doesn't it.

[boganbusman]

There's nothing wrong with chucking an auto behind a big V8, because autos are much tougher. Especially in pro drag racing, you will see mostly autos.

[steelsnake00]

what are you saying you would run a stupid slush box behind 700 hp ?

Are you saying most US V8's run 700BHP?

[darknight788]

nope MOST run 300-400 hp, but putting an automatic behind 700 hp big block muscle car is retarded b/c you are not getting the full amount of power available to the wheels while minimizing parasitic driveline losses. manuals do a much better job of doing that plus they can kinda help you out in something that gets horrible fuel economy, but what did you expect from 700 horses.

[boganbusman]

Putting an auto behind a V8 is not retarded, because a V8 has enough torque to shift a fat driveline. And like I said, it's much stronger.

[darknight788]

o yea no doubt. bing v8's with lots of power need a fat driveline to handle all of that power. but id still rather have a manual behind it all dont know why ...... just because i guess. look at semis some literally have a ton of torque and there isnt a auto tranny out there for them that can handle that much power.

[boganbusman]

There are plenty of auto trannies for trucks, and they can handle the torque, but with a manual you can have more gears. That's the only difference really, apart from cost perhaps.

[xHaZxMaTx]

I think it was Toyota that had the 8 speed automatic transmission...

[boganbusman]

lol . . . Hazmat, truck trannies have a lot more than 8 speeds

Using ZF as an example, their top auto trans has 12 forward speeds and can handle 2700Nm. Their top manual trans has 16 forward speeds and can also take 2700Nm.

[steelsnake00]

I think it was Toyota that had the 8 speed automatic transmission...

BMW and Mercades do semi-auto 7-forward-speeders. To be honest, you don't really need anymore.