Project: 'Erebus'
- Grez~Supra_RZ-S
- Valued Member
- Posts: 3092
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 21:46
- Location: Hair Salon
Project: 'Erebus'
Thought Id put this here too so you can see how it progresses, this is copy and pasted directly from my car club...
Welcome to my second project. The first, as you know, ended in disaster. After that, many were shocked that I left the SX brotherhood for something slightly (Ok a lot...) more feminine, a Mazda MX5/Miata NA. I could rabbit on all day about why I chose it, excellent handling, astonishing grip, based on the Lotus Elan chassis, the fact Im pussy-whipped and Leanne has always wanted one...but I wont.
Anyway, when I picked her up:
Engine: Stock 120bhp 1600cc, well maintained, low mileage.
Chassis: Standard
Wheels/Tyres: OZ Saturn 15X6 (ET35) on 195/50 Goodyear Eagle F1s
The transition was difficult. Coming from nearly 300bhp down to a meagre 120bhp isnt easy. I missed the raw grunt of the SX, and I had to do something to make me love the MX5. So, I bought the wheels Id always wanted, Rota GT3s (15X7 ET40) on 195/50 Yokohama Parada Spec 2 tyres.
It worked for 2 weeks or so, and then up for sale she went. I couldnt stand it any more, the lack of power was getting to me. I went on the search for a 180SX, and never looked back...until a week later. I enjoyed the fact I could start up my MX5 everyday, something I could never do in the SX. I enjoyed the ridiculous MPG, the handling...and even the looks. Although I VERY rarely took the roof off. I decided to rekindle my love for the '5, and continue on.
Growing tired of the front plate 'brick', I took it off, and on went the 'Time attack' and 'northloop' decals.
I then decided to buy a hardtop, a Eunos rear panel, and relocate the plates. A few days later, I also fitted bonnet lifters to get rid of some of the heat generated by the engine, and the 'sleepy eye' kit.
I then ordered some adjustable coilovers (the stock MX5 setup are coilovers anyway...) from Spax. The RSX were used on my friends Del Sol, and he had nothing but good things to say about them when we came home from the 'Ring, so that was good enough for me. Ride-height (20-50mm) and damping adjustable (32point), with a spring rate of 8.6kg/mm, and at a decent price. They arrived last week, although I havent got round to fitting them just yet due to a slave cylinder problem.
By this point, Erebus may appear to be a strange name, and youre probably wondering about its relevance. Well, in Greek mythology, Erebus was part of Hades, the underworld. In Christian religion, it has become known as the 'gates of Hell', where the dead pass through immediately after their lives have ended. In more recent times than that (1845), Erebus was one of Franklins ships which ventured to the Northwest passage, never to be seen again, and has been surrounded in myth ever since as to what happened. Erebus was also the first ship to convert to steam powered screw engines. It was a revelation.
After a serious think, I set out plans for the 5. I wanted a very fast track car, and an extremely capable road car (it can be done...) right from the offset. Its what project: Autumn was all about, and I wasnt going to let the dream end with her. The car would see numerous Nurburgring trips, as well as many of the UK tracks. However, despite the great chassis, I only have 120bhp to play with. With an E-manage, exhaust, air filter...Id still only be realistically looking at 140bhp. Even on IRTBs, I could only wish for 155bhp...and so I almost bought a Jackson racing supercharger. But even then, on 7PSI, I was looking at 170-80bhp. People argue thats fast enough...but its not. With a turbo kit I could push past 200bhp, but then Id be looking at a rebuild first...
Plus, its all been done to death. What I need is something powerful, and different. I went into talks with Z cars UK, a prominent company based in Aldborough who built the 'Tiger' westfield car, as well as an AWD 1000bhp Ultima GTR, using twin-turbo'd/nitrous'd hayabusa engines. For £10k, they would strip my car of 300kg of weight, put in a 6spd sequential box, and mate it up to a 450bhp turbocharged hayabusa engine. This would be excellent for a track car...but for the sweeping back-sections of the 'Ring, I would top out far too easily...so the plan:
SR20DET Turbocharged DOHC 4 cylinder
+197bhp
+Extremely strong block
+Stage 1 mods cost less than £1k, and will put power output to 270bhp
+Has been done before, tips and engine mounts available
+Easy to get hold of
+Fairly cheap
-Fairly poor fuel economy
-Average reliability
-High chance of buying a dog
Ive seen several for sale at the moment with everything for around the £800 mark, so the swap is feasible on my budget.
Also, as an update, I fitted my front coilovers two days ago, and will be doing the rears tonight. No pictures Im afraid yet as it took me four hours to remove and re-fit a total of eight bolts, and was therefore understandably in no mood for picture taking. Theyre on though, and although I still need to mess with the dampers and ride height (as well as dial in some hefty negative camber and sort the toe...), I can feel the improvement at the front end already.
Welcome to my second project. The first, as you know, ended in disaster. After that, many were shocked that I left the SX brotherhood for something slightly (Ok a lot...) more feminine, a Mazda MX5/Miata NA. I could rabbit on all day about why I chose it, excellent handling, astonishing grip, based on the Lotus Elan chassis, the fact Im pussy-whipped and Leanne has always wanted one...but I wont.
Anyway, when I picked her up:
Engine: Stock 120bhp 1600cc, well maintained, low mileage.
Chassis: Standard
Wheels/Tyres: OZ Saturn 15X6 (ET35) on 195/50 Goodyear Eagle F1s
The transition was difficult. Coming from nearly 300bhp down to a meagre 120bhp isnt easy. I missed the raw grunt of the SX, and I had to do something to make me love the MX5. So, I bought the wheels Id always wanted, Rota GT3s (15X7 ET40) on 195/50 Yokohama Parada Spec 2 tyres.
It worked for 2 weeks or so, and then up for sale she went. I couldnt stand it any more, the lack of power was getting to me. I went on the search for a 180SX, and never looked back...until a week later. I enjoyed the fact I could start up my MX5 everyday, something I could never do in the SX. I enjoyed the ridiculous MPG, the handling...and even the looks. Although I VERY rarely took the roof off. I decided to rekindle my love for the '5, and continue on.
Growing tired of the front plate 'brick', I took it off, and on went the 'Time attack' and 'northloop' decals.
I then decided to buy a hardtop, a Eunos rear panel, and relocate the plates. A few days later, I also fitted bonnet lifters to get rid of some of the heat generated by the engine, and the 'sleepy eye' kit.
I then ordered some adjustable coilovers (the stock MX5 setup are coilovers anyway...) from Spax. The RSX were used on my friends Del Sol, and he had nothing but good things to say about them when we came home from the 'Ring, so that was good enough for me. Ride-height (20-50mm) and damping adjustable (32point), with a spring rate of 8.6kg/mm, and at a decent price. They arrived last week, although I havent got round to fitting them just yet due to a slave cylinder problem.
By this point, Erebus may appear to be a strange name, and youre probably wondering about its relevance. Well, in Greek mythology, Erebus was part of Hades, the underworld. In Christian religion, it has become known as the 'gates of Hell', where the dead pass through immediately after their lives have ended. In more recent times than that (1845), Erebus was one of Franklins ships which ventured to the Northwest passage, never to be seen again, and has been surrounded in myth ever since as to what happened. Erebus was also the first ship to convert to steam powered screw engines. It was a revelation.
After a serious think, I set out plans for the 5. I wanted a very fast track car, and an extremely capable road car (it can be done...) right from the offset. Its what project: Autumn was all about, and I wasnt going to let the dream end with her. The car would see numerous Nurburgring trips, as well as many of the UK tracks. However, despite the great chassis, I only have 120bhp to play with. With an E-manage, exhaust, air filter...Id still only be realistically looking at 140bhp. Even on IRTBs, I could only wish for 155bhp...and so I almost bought a Jackson racing supercharger. But even then, on 7PSI, I was looking at 170-80bhp. People argue thats fast enough...but its not. With a turbo kit I could push past 200bhp, but then Id be looking at a rebuild first...
Plus, its all been done to death. What I need is something powerful, and different. I went into talks with Z cars UK, a prominent company based in Aldborough who built the 'Tiger' westfield car, as well as an AWD 1000bhp Ultima GTR, using twin-turbo'd/nitrous'd hayabusa engines. For £10k, they would strip my car of 300kg of weight, put in a 6spd sequential box, and mate it up to a 450bhp turbocharged hayabusa engine. This would be excellent for a track car...but for the sweeping back-sections of the 'Ring, I would top out far too easily...so the plan:
SR20DET Turbocharged DOHC 4 cylinder
+197bhp
+Extremely strong block
+Stage 1 mods cost less than £1k, and will put power output to 270bhp
+Has been done before, tips and engine mounts available
+Easy to get hold of
+Fairly cheap
-Fairly poor fuel economy
-Average reliability
-High chance of buying a dog
Ive seen several for sale at the moment with everything for around the £800 mark, so the swap is feasible on my budget.
Also, as an update, I fitted my front coilovers two days ago, and will be doing the rears tonight. No pictures Im afraid yet as it took me four hours to remove and re-fit a total of eight bolts, and was therefore understandably in no mood for picture taking. Theyre on though, and although I still need to mess with the dampers and ride height (as well as dial in some hefty negative camber and sort the toe...), I can feel the improvement at the front end already.
*sig removed for being too big. limitations are 550x120px & 50kb*
- boganbusman
- Unbeatable
- Posts: 5142
- Joined: 03 Sep 2004, 12:09
- Location: Mute City
- Contact:
- Koenigsegg_Rox
- Professional
- Posts: 2250
- Joined: 19 Nov 2006, 02:00
- Location: Mount Gambier, Australia
- Contact:
- Grez~Supra_RZ-S
- Valued Member
- Posts: 3092
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 21:46
- Location: Hair Salon
Hah, you try fighting with 18 years of rusted on bolts
The SR is an aluminium block, so the difference in weight will be negotiable. My only real problem will be the dimensions of the block, as its slightly larger than mine. Theres no question it will fit, Ill just have to drop it back as far as possible so as not to ruin the weight distribution.
The SR is an aluminium block, so the difference in weight will be negotiable. My only real problem will be the dimensions of the block, as its slightly larger than mine. Theres no question it will fit, Ill just have to drop it back as far as possible so as not to ruin the weight distribution.
*sig removed for being too big. limitations are 550x120px & 50kb*
dont use an SR ive read somewhere it is possible to use the 13B-REW or a Lexus V8 in a miata. If you keep the BP look at http://www.flyinmiata.com and http://www.perfromancecenter.com
- steelsnake00
- Professional
- Posts: 2136
- Joined: 28 Aug 2005, 17:54
- Location: Cirencester, UK
I think the SR transplant is because compared to a rotary or V8, it's fairly simple and might only need minor modifications to the engine mounts and the like.viper16 wrote:dont use an SR ive read somewhere it is possible to use the 13B-REW or a Lexus V8 in a miata. If you keep the BP look at http://www.flyinmiata.com and http://www.perfromancecenter.com
Grez, why don't you go for one of the turbo or supercharger kits? My old boss had a 1.8i Sport running a GT2871R and about 300bhp last time I saw him, it was totally lunatic.
'01 Triumph TT600- Race spec everything
'94 Audi S2 Quattro- Road legal track project
'94 Audi S2 Quattro- Road legal track project
- Grez~Supra_RZ-S
- Valued Member
- Posts: 3092
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 21:46
- Location: Hair Salon
I dont want the V8 b/c its heavy, and I dont want the issues related to the rotary. As for the disco potato, its a damned good turbo (had it on the black SX), but the cost of building up my block to cope with 300bhp outweighs the cost of the SR and ancillaries.
As for the coilovers...not good. The fronts are now lowered, and Ive been adjusting the camber/toe etc. Ive snapped a bolt on the rears though, so my mechanic is taking the car off me for a day tomorrow.
As for the coilovers...not good. The fronts are now lowered, and Ive been adjusting the camber/toe etc. Ive snapped a bolt on the rears though, so my mechanic is taking the car off me for a day tomorrow.
*sig removed for being too big. limitations are 550x120px & 50kb*
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
how about an F22C DOHC VTEC from an S2000 instead of an SR20
- Koenigsegg_Rox
- Professional
- Posts: 2250
- Joined: 19 Nov 2006, 02:00
- Location: Mount Gambier, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
Now that's a good engine.
- Grez~Supra_RZ-S
- Valued Member
- Posts: 3092
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 21:46
- Location: Hair Salon
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
Its also an engine that is quite large compared to the SR, and still fetches around 6 grand for just the block and the 'box. By the time that was in, I could have a 400bhp SR with a sequential box...
*sig removed for being too big. limitations are 550x120px & 50kb*
- Koenigsegg_Rox
- Professional
- Posts: 2250
- Joined: 19 Nov 2006, 02:00
- Location: Mount Gambier, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
Might be a crappy suggestion, but RB26DETT?
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
the engine and tranny are half of the dang car
- Grez~Supra_RZ-S
- Valued Member
- Posts: 3092
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 21:46
- Location: Hair Salon
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
...youve never done anything like this, have you?
Yes, the engine and gearbox are a large part of the driving force of a car. However, youre forgetting that these cars are EFI, and therefore need an ECU, and a wiring loom compatible with the donor engine. In short, that means you need an S2000 ECU and loom. You try getting hold of one in the first place, and then look at the price. Thats on top of the £6k.
Besides, the F22C is the USDM S2000 engine, the EU and JDM got the F20C, which was more prone to exploding when an S/C was applied.
As for the RB, too much work required really. I could pick up an RB25 pretty cheap (around £1500 with box, loom, ECU and turbo), although admittedly the condition it was in might be questionable. That said, its a big, relatively heavy engine, and has the same negative reasons which turned me away from the 302 'Monster' conversion.
Anyway, slight update, the adjustable coilovers are on. Im having a full wheel alignment sometime in the week, as I have a ridiculous amount of negative camber, and the toe is all over the place. A few pics:
I have progress pics on my phone from actually fitting the damned things. The problem we had was a corroded captive nut, which snapped when we tried un-doing the bolt. My mechanic kindly got the nut out, cleaned it up and re-welded it for m so that I could get the things on that night. It went a lot easier than the fronts...
Yes, the engine and gearbox are a large part of the driving force of a car. However, youre forgetting that these cars are EFI, and therefore need an ECU, and a wiring loom compatible with the donor engine. In short, that means you need an S2000 ECU and loom. You try getting hold of one in the first place, and then look at the price. Thats on top of the £6k.
Besides, the F22C is the USDM S2000 engine, the EU and JDM got the F20C, which was more prone to exploding when an S/C was applied.
As for the RB, too much work required really. I could pick up an RB25 pretty cheap (around £1500 with box, loom, ECU and turbo), although admittedly the condition it was in might be questionable. That said, its a big, relatively heavy engine, and has the same negative reasons which turned me away from the 302 'Monster' conversion.
Anyway, slight update, the adjustable coilovers are on. Im having a full wheel alignment sometime in the week, as I have a ridiculous amount of negative camber, and the toe is all over the place. A few pics:
I have progress pics on my phone from actually fitting the damned things. The problem we had was a corroded captive nut, which snapped when we tried un-doing the bolt. My mechanic kindly got the nut out, cleaned it up and re-welded it for m so that I could get the things on that night. It went a lot easier than the fronts...
*sig removed for being too big. limitations are 550x120px & 50kb*
- Glopaticki
- Drift King
- Posts: 524
- Joined: 26 May 2007, 07:28
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
I don't know much about engines so i won't try and act like i do but i do have one question. Have you ever considered any european car engines? If u have/haven't why? Keep up the good work mate looks very good.
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
I think the reason is that most small european engines aren't very powerfull.
Most of the powerfull european engines are big V8 and V10-12s
The Inline 4 or 6 engines aren't very powerfull and most are rather heavy.
The average 2.0 Turbo engines have 200 bhp. wich isn't bad but it isn't impressive eighter.
Most of the powerfull european engines are big V8 and V10-12s
The Inline 4 or 6 engines aren't very powerfull and most are rather heavy.
The average 2.0 Turbo engines have 200 bhp. wich isn't bad but it isn't impressive eighter.
- Grez~Supra_RZ-S
- Valued Member
- Posts: 3092
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 21:46
- Location: Hair Salon
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
The SR is great because its light, and although it only has 197bhp out of the box, itll hold around the 330bhp mark with NO internal work.
*sig removed for being too big. limitations are 550x120px & 50kb*
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
thats odd i read somewhere they can hold up around 500hp with no internal work
- boganbusman
- Unbeatable
- Posts: 5142
- Joined: 03 Sep 2004, 12:09
- Location: Mute City
- Contact:
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
And exactly how many engines have you modified before?viper16 wrote:thats odd i read somewhere they can hold up around 500hp with no internal work
Personally I would try and recommend a 4AGE 20v blacktop, but I really don't know if that's easily do-able And you probably want more power than that . . .
- Grez~Supra_RZ-S
- Valued Member
- Posts: 3092
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 21:46
- Location: Hair Salon
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
On ITBs, that would make a very interesting engine, very responsive too... Ill stick to what I know though, but that is a great suggestion. The only problem would be the power, 160bhp for the price I could get one for would be the same as buying a JR supercharger + bits, which would net me a touch more (170-80ish)
I would love a 3S-GTE, its about the only engine Id choose over an SR. Problem is, its never been done before. From experience, Ive found that things which have never been attempted, havent been for a reason.
I would love a 3S-GTE, its about the only engine Id choose over an SR. Problem is, its never been done before. From experience, Ive found that things which have never been attempted, havent been for a reason.
*sig removed for being too big. limitations are 550x120px & 50kb*
- Turbo King
- Turbo Charged
- Posts: 68
- Joined: 16 Apr 2005, 05:52
- Location: Land of the long white cloud..
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
Im lovin that camber!!
- Grez~Supra_RZ-S
- Valued Member
- Posts: 3092
- Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 21:46
- Location: Hair Salon
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
Its being corrected slightly now.
*sig removed for being too big. limitations are 550x120px & 50kb*
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
well if you do the SR swap you got alot of stuff to do like:
Rewire the whole Car
convert to the correct OBD System
Custom Engine Mounts
New suspension to handle the weight
Chassis modifications to fit the engine
Custon radiator
Custom 3in Mandrel bent Exhaust
Piggy Back ECU
Custom Driveshaft
New differental (yours is prone to break with alot of power)
New Brakes
And probally alot more just with the above mentioned stuff your probally looking at $10-20K in parts and labor
Rewire the whole Car
convert to the correct OBD System
Custom Engine Mounts
New suspension to handle the weight
Chassis modifications to fit the engine
Custon radiator
Custom 3in Mandrel bent Exhaust
Piggy Back ECU
Custom Driveshaft
New differental (yours is prone to break with alot of power)
New Brakes
And probally alot more just with the above mentioned stuff your probally looking at $10-20K in parts and labor
Re: Project: 'Erebus'
But Miata differental is one of the best out there!Why will it break?
The bebe M3 (e30-e46) and lancia integrale can prove that european engines are powerfulTheStig wrote:I think the reason is that most small european engines aren't very powerfull.
Most of the powerfull european engines are big V8 and V10-12s
The Inline 4 or 6 engines aren't very powerfull and most are rather heavy.
The average 2.0 Turbo engines have 200 bhp. wich isn't bad but it isn't impressive eighter.