Is a Damage System a good idea??

AcidDog · Post by **AcidDog** » 25 Nov 2004, 15:55

Many people are commenting that NFSU 2 should have a damage system. So that if you cars smash into walls and indeed other cars, they will get damaged.

This has its pro's and con's but is it a good idea all round?

If we accept the fact that we speed through the streets at brake neck speeds most of the time, between races, imagine hitting a wall at 200mph... Surely your car should blow up? If not, imagine how many times you would have to go and have your car repaired, and how much money that would cost!

Damage system would also kill you in a race, drag for eg. If you smash into oncoming traffic or something, then you are totalled and must first repair your car before racing again.

All in all, this would be a pretty tricky system to implement, what do you folks think?

Post by **Bojan** » 25 Nov 2004, 16:04

I've given this a lot of thought and I must say that imo it's a good thing NFSU2 doesn't have damage.
Why?
With the arcade racing style where you don't really have to think much it wouldn't be fair to be punished for wreckless driving by paying huge amounts of money for repairs.
Damage was ok in NFSPU where driving style was slow, accurate and pretty sim-styled. But this is the exact opposite: fast like hell, narrow streets and never enough money

Among other things I also like the NFSU series because of the arcade driving style. I like to drive easy with auto gearbox just to feel the speed (which imo is AWESOME in NFSU2) and I don't care for hitting the wall or traffic from time to time. What damage would do here is take the easy driving away and force players to pay attention.

Wolfheart · Post by **Wolfheart** » 25 Nov 2004, 16:36

I don't think that a damage system makes much sense on NFSU2, for various reasons:

As you said, nearly any collision would: a)kill the driver b) blow up car or at least leave it beyond all possible repair, so the only solution would be to boy a new one and start ricing it up all over again.

Even in the case of small collisions, your lights, windshield or body parts would always get smashed, and having to re-buy them again on every race would be a pain in the ass.

This game is about pure speed and styling, these two are not possible if you have to drive slowly in fear of smashing those nifty but expensive parts.

Sweeper · Post by **Sweeper** » 25 Nov 2004, 16:40

It depends to which extent you take the damage system.
Yes it means lowering the speed feeling actually, wouldn't mind it actually.
But then again, your concentration would be at top and you would enjoy another factor that I do in such games.
The AI totalling factor, for those who has played Street Legal Racing Redline.
You will know that putting the AI in a tree while dragging is a lot of fun.

AcidDog · Post by **AcidDog** » 25 Nov 2004, 20:46

Good points... Like I said, you would still have to repair your car tho, and that would cost serious money. Who knows, but it could get seriously complicated.

f360spyda · Post by **f360spyda** » 25 Nov 2004, 23:54

damage in underground would be okay (to me) if:
-u didnt hafta pay for it
-it affected ur performance for ONLY the race u crashed on, meaning once u complete the race, when u return back to freeroam, ur cars all healthy again
-it didnt slow the game (not ur car) down cuz of the increased visuals

UrQuattro · Post by **UrQuattro** » 25 Nov 2004, 23:58

If there was a damage system, you wouldn't drive like a madman, now would you? Instead you'd be more careful. And if AI crashed - it would lose the race, so they would be more careful.

What needed to be done is:

- AI stregth adjustablity (in % - 1 to 100)

- Invulnerability On/Off for those who just want to smash into things.

- It iwll never happen because it's a touchy issue with Licensed cars and manufacturers. Which is a pity, and just one of the reason this game is starting to stink more and more.

2furio · Post by **2furio** » 26 Nov 2004, 00:09

If the average car companies wouldn't let EA put in the damage system, then how did the exotic car companies let them. I think there should be damage like in NFS HS (btw, NFS HS was THE best NFS game!!!

). You can turn it off if you want, you can make it affect only visual or performance or both parts. That would satisfy everyone. Also, you do get totalled in a drag race when you hit a traffic car or anything at top speed.

BTW, Have you noticed that the gay control is still there for drag. It's even worse when the drag is not straight the car is automatically controlled around a curve!!!!!!

flatblacksleeper · Post by **flatblacksleeper** » 26 Nov 2004, 00:10

I say no, unless they lower the speeds and they also make the supra handle way better, it would be impossible if i used the supra to win, i would be lapped

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 26 Nov 2004, 05:29

2furio wrote:BTW, Have you noticed that the gay control is still there for drag. It's even worse when the drag is not straight the car is automatically controlled around a curve!!!!!!

It's still there huh? Well, I know that in NFSU1, this happens in the Highway Drag track.

AcidDog · Post by **AcidDog** » 26 Nov 2004, 09:37

With regards to drag racing... its a pitty the same super AI that drives us around corners doesn't also avoid oncoming retarded traffic!!!!

With regards to damage... I'm liking the idea of having it, but with an option to turn it off... That might be the best option, but the implications for online play are interesting.

It would have to either always be on or off for online play... some people will be happy and then again some people will be pissed... I guess it's pretty hard to make a game that everyone likes eh??

The Flying Dragon · Post by **The Flying Dragon** » 26 Nov 2004, 10:55

it would be interesting..as you would drive more beter..and if you said that the computers might quit the race if it crashes...hmm..what hapens if i ram them onto the traffic..and what if i do that to the 3 cars ...if they all die..who do i race with? ahhaha i wouldn't mind you know..

AcId FoX · Post by **AcId FoX** » 26 Nov 2004, 11:26

The AI totalling factor, for those who has played Street Legal Racing Redline.
You will know that putting the AI in a tree while dragging is a lot of fun.

Yes indeed it is a lot of fun if u don't lose control urself

The Flying Dragon wrote:it would be interesting..as you would drive more beter..and if you said that the computers might quit the race if it crashes...hmm..what hapens if i ram them onto the traffic..and what if i do that to the 3 cars ...if they all die..who do i race with? ahhaha i wouldn't mind you know..

That would actually be quite fun

North' · Post by **North'** » 26 Nov 2004, 12:12

^ What if it makes it so that if you crash into other cars you break down first?

AcidDog · Post by **AcidDog** » 26 Nov 2004, 14:52

Then your race is over... AI or you, damage will treat everyone the same... Although I'm sure you'd see the AI on rails, and they would rarely go into things... I bet in fact many monitors would end up at repair shops with keyboards through them... from people flipping out when AI rams them into light post.

Post by **TheStig** » 27 Nov 2004, 08:13

damage would be good, just like in juiced (it looks realistic)

if they made feel feel of speed faster... (at a lower speed) it would be more realistic and that with damage would make you race more carefull and crashing your car to bits is always fun in a normal (not career mode) race... just ruin it... for the fun of it....

and it woulde help the online community get rid of the wallhuggers!

but the licences don't help us with this

UrQuattro · Post by **UrQuattro** » 27 Nov 2004, 12:31

Still wierd, how is that Juiced managed to get all licensed cars and damage, while NFSU cant. I just don't understand what is the reason behind saying 'yes' or 'no' to damage - because if one game can have it, and another can't - it's strange. I think it's BS, and is just about how much money is going into licence. And perhaps it relates to game genre - if it's arcade - no damage is preferred, but when it's more realism - damage is a must. Although I'm a bit fed up with cars that hit eachother like they are made of paper and have crash sounds - but nothing happens. It's just lazy imho.

SmokyTyrz · Post by **SmokyTyrz** » 27 Nov 2004, 19:22

I'm sure my stance is obvious from my previous posts, but to me it's not about damage but more about penalty. I agree the damage without penalty of cost would be ideal. But that takes a lot of coding, development, modeling, and system resources. Not to mention the licensing issues mentioned above. IMHO all that is needed is an optional penalty system. The the user chooses to enable the penalty option, then this system could be implemented in a number of ways:

Option 1: If a car hits a wall then it should come to a stop and then reset at 0mph (just as if you hit the "reset car" button that exists today).

Option 2: An ongoing pentalty system whereby the more a car hits a wall the slower it's acceleration and top-speed and the poorer the handling becomes in an accumulative fashion. This would simulate "damage" as a penalty without having to model the exact physics and visuals of it.

Option 3: Option 2, but add that a "critical hit" would take that car out of the race completely. You can then introduce several penalty gradients; none, accumulative, and accumulative plus removal on critical hit.

Someone mentioned that NFS:U2 is more arcade the NFS:PU. I disagree. If you play it as a sim it behaves more like a sim. Granted, the AI has been coded to "cheat" by allowing wallriding. But in online mode you can make it as realistic as you'd like by obeying the rules of racing. It's only an arcade game if you play it that way. But when played appropriately I think that NFS:U2 can be even better than Gran Turismo in some ways.

Cheers,

ants · Post by **ants** » 28 Nov 2004, 00:47

i'd hate to have Damage in NFSU.
It would just suck driving your car around thats been smashed up and scratched. very embarissing lol...

Post by **TheStig** » 28 Nov 2004, 04:52

UrQuattro wrote:Still wierd, how is that Juiced managed to get all licensed cars and damage, while NFSU cant. I just don't understand what is the reason behind saying 'yes' or 'no' to damage - because if one game can have it, and another can't - it's strange. I think it's BS, and is just about how much money is going into licence. And perhaps it relates to game genre - if it's arcade - no damage is preferred, but when it's more realism - damage is a must. Although I'm a bit fed up with cars that hit eachother like they are made of paper and have crash sounds - but nothing happens. It's just lazy imho.

I got a feeling this has to do that Juiced is on a Closed track. without traffic. OK it is on "normal" streets but they are closed like being a real race.
NFS U is a open raced as it was real illegal street racing... and I think that made the difirence/

but I would like to see a full visual damage with a performace damage just like in NFS Porsche. so your car is looking worse after a hit and the performance goes down... not realistic but still fun.
simple damage (performance wise) like NFS 4 and 5 had....

The Flying Dragon · Post by **The Flying Dragon** » 28 Nov 2004, 05:31

i think EA is just lazy END OF STORY...
they make games that sells..and not bother with the ocntent...
its EA..i dont care..they can make a game as realistic as GT4 if they want to...and you know they can...you kno why..? cos its EA!!!!! so rich..and yet...being so tyte...

Post by **TheStig** » 28 Nov 2004, 17:15

there was a option in the first PS2 demo for damage but it was not accesseble.
I seen a movie that had some damage. but it never reached the final game.
so I don't think EA is LAZY cause if they where lazy they wouldn't even start with it!!

AcidDog · Post by **AcidDog** » 29 Nov 2004, 09:23

shame some times I feel for the folks over at EA Games. They pour blood sweat and tears into making a game... The problem is obviously around licenses to allow the cars to get all deformed and stuff... But hey, prang or no prang at least we get to power around the place with some of the neatest sounding machines out there!!!