Most Wanted, death penalty?

UltimusRex · Post by **UltimusRex** » 24 Nov 2005, 16:55

Correct me if I am wrong, but in real life, the cops cannot, do not, and will NOT just come at you head-on with two indestructible SUVs when you are pushing 180 MPH. That would be instant murder-suicide! How could anyone suvive a wreck like that?

I know that the speeds and wreckless driving make you a danger to the safety of the other motorists, but isn't the death penalty a bit much?

I hate it when i am blasting down the highway at a buck fifty plus, cops tailing me in their already unrealistic ultra-perfect-handling-and-accelerating cruisers when all of a sudden, as i come over a hill, BAM!!!!!!!! two behemouths appear right infront of me, probably doing about 80 or more, making for a combined impact speed of well over 200 MPH... regardless of any safety harnesses, in real life my car would be unrecognizable as having ever been a car and i, and probably the cop in the SUV, would be undeniably dead.

I know they weren't going for realism in this game... but c'mon... what the hell?!

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 24 Nov 2005, 17:01

Well, that's why they rammed you with SUV's. If they're gonna ram you with a normal cruiser, you're gonna end up immobilizing it instead... FYI, they only come after you if you're heat lever is x3 or higher.

And don't go too far with human lives and suicidal attacks. This game is about speed.

UltimusRex · Post by **UltimusRex** » 24 Nov 2005, 17:12

like i said, i know they aren't going for realism... and yeah, if they need to stop you, i guess that's the way to do it... it just seems so unbelievable that they would send a cop on a kamikaze mission like that... i hate it in games like this when you go from 150 mph to 0 mph in half an instant without taking extreme damage. i also know that they couldn't really do collision damage, but the instant stops are so unrealistic that it totally takes me out of the game when they happen.

^Sparco^ · Post by **^Sparco^** » 24 Nov 2005, 17:14

Never thought about this. I'm actually used to the unrealistic factor.

You haven't played NFS6*, have you?

*Flamable barrels falling from choppers... and your car flying away when ramming them... WTF!

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 24 Nov 2005, 17:19

UltimusRex wrote:i hate it in games like this when you go from 150 mph to 0 mph in half an instant without taking extreme damage.

Are you referring to the cruisers or the SUV's?

UltimusRex wrote:i also know that they couldn't really do collision damage, but the instant stops are so unrealistic that it totally takes me out of the game when they happen.

Believe me. If they hadn't done this, there won't be any fun in the game, at all; you'll feel that the game would end pretty fast before you even know it's over. And trust me, chances are when this thing had happened, you'll go and speak out again to the public that EA had lacked in police strategies and lack enthusiasm and adrenaline rush.

Now truthfully tell me that you won't do this if that had happened, and I'll respectfully take my words back.

UltimusRex · Post by **UltimusRex** » 24 Nov 2005, 17:43

Andre_online wrote:Are you referring to the cruisers or the SUV's?

the SUVs Mostly.

Andre_online wrote:Believe me. If they hadn't done this, there won't be any fun in the game, at all; you'll feel that the game would end pretty fast before you even know it. And trust me, chances are when this thing had happened, you'll go and speak out again to the public that EA had lacked in police strategies and lack enthusiasm and adrenaline rush.

Now truthfully tell me that you won't do this if that had happened, and I'll respectfully take my words back.

how would the lack of head-on collisions with indestructible SUVs make the game less fun? On the contrary, aside from the kamikaze SUVs, I think the pursuit mode is done extremely well... the police chatter is great, the cops are very challenging but not nearly impossible, and the tactics all seem very realistic and fairly well recreated... all except the kamikaze SUVs. I get an adrenaline rush when i am flying down the road and a cop nails my rear quarter panel and i have to fight to stay on the road, or when i rip through a road block, or when i look in the rear view and see about 8 pairs of flashing lights bearing down on my ass... but i get no adrenaline rush from to big trucks suddenly appearing infront of me, giving me next to no chance to evade them and bringing the action to an instantaneous halt... i rarely get busted, by the Rhino's, so this is not me yelling about them because they always get me... it's just such a ridiculous concept, and in real life, it would be an extremely deadly one.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 24 Nov 2005, 17:56

Actually, when the Rhinos are coming at you at a high rate of speed from another direction, they actually said it over at the PA system before they are dispatched. And if they are near you, you can see them from the map actually...

korge · Post by **korge** » 24 Nov 2005, 18:00

you can also see it on your bottom screen. There is a unit dispatch thing that shows when and what backup has arrived. It also shows how many police units you have immobilized or damaged.

UltimusRex · Post by **UltimusRex** » 24 Nov 2005, 18:05

jebus! are you a MW fanboy? i know about those things... but there is so much other stuff going on, i never notice them on the map, or notice them on the radio... i think you are missing my point... but i think i give up. i can see that you are dead set on the Rhinos being a wonderful part of the game.

I do tend to prefer sim racers over arcade style, so maybe that's my problem here... you obviously love the unrealistic arcade style, so i don't think that we will be agreeing on much of anything about this game in the future.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 24 Nov 2005, 18:10

No, we're not being 'dead set' on the Rhinos... It's just that you kinda went overboard with the 'kamikaze SUV's' and human speed death, that's all. This game was never about cops dying while in line of duty, you know? It's just a game...

Pinecone · Post by **Pinecone** » 24 Nov 2005, 18:14

We all know NFS is not a realistic game, so why is Rex complaining?

UltimusRex · Post by **UltimusRex** » 24 Nov 2005, 21:46

oh my goodness, how many times did i say that i know NFS isn't supposed to be realistic? but at the same time, we all know that EA did want a certain level of realism in the game, to make it seem like a plausible scenario, to pull you into the world of Need for Speed Most Wanted.

And i was not trying to go moral on EA and say that they were killing cops in the line of duty, because they obviously aren't... the second they hit you, they rev up to block your escape... and I am an advocate of video game violence and games like driver and GTA, so i could care less if a few cops die in the line of duty in NFS (i do care very much if it happens in real life, so don't get moral on me, lol). That is not my point at all, my point is simply that, for the level of realism that IS present in the game, the concept of these crazy SUV cops that in all reality would be running kamikaze missions each time they went out on the street seems a bit absurd. EA was clearly going for a decent degree of realism with their pursuit mode, by including all the real world strategies used by cops to catch real high speed racers, and i think they did a wonderful job on it... the Rhinos just seem a bit out of place where all the other tactics are quite realistic, but the Rhinos would never be done in real life (like i said instant murder-suicide).

I really didn't care THIS much about the Rhinos to get into a huge debate over realism and the morals of cops dying in video games (and they obviously don't), I was just trying to put my two cents in about a tiny, fairly insignificant part of the game that I find absurd and completely unrealistic (again, i know it's not a sim, but they were going for a certain level of realism).

Post by **TheStig** » 25 Nov 2005, 08:06

Ever seen a tv program with pursuits in the US??

those american Cops are crazy... they really don't stop at anything...

If they added more realism then the game would be pretty damn boring... you would outrun them within seconds and noone would ram you head to head... happy

UltimusRex · Post by **UltimusRex** » 25 Nov 2005, 10:20

lol... i am happy with the realism of the chases, except the Rhinos... am i the only one that thinks that the idea of ramming a speeder headon is completely absurd? There are lots of other crazy collisions in the game that would be absurd as well, but they don't involve someone intentionally ramming you head on at 200+ mph combined speed. I'm sorry if it sounds like i want them to turn it into a sim, i don't... i like simluations, but the arcade style makes for more action packed chases, i just don't see why, along with all the very realistic, feasible police tactics that they included in the game, they had to add such a ridiculous thing as SUVs that ram your ass head on. I don't care that the cop cars are somehow magically fast enough to catch up to a completely blown Lamborghini, if they weren't the game would not be fun at all, and, as you said, you would outrun them and the chase would be over in a few seconds... so i am not griping about the overall realism of the game at all, just the Rhinos that are stuck in there with otherwise very realistic police tactics... if they behaved just like the other cop cars, and came up behind you or sat in road blocks, but packed a much larger punch, that would be fine... but they ram you head on, and correct me if i am wrong, but there is no such police tactic. All the other tactics exsist in the real world, except for the damn Rhinos.

sigsegv · Post by **sigsegv** » 25 Nov 2005, 13:42

UltimusRex wrote:lol... i am happy with the realism of the chases, except the Rhinos... am i the only one that thinks that the idea of ramming a speeder headon is completely absurd?

Well, you're not. I think that the Rhinos are just one of the unnecessary things.

IMHO, EA just screwed up all the game with the way they programmed their AI. It's not only the Rhinos that are unrealistic. I am not asking an arcade game to be realistic, but at least I have the (stupid) request that the AI doesn't break the same rules the game imposes to the human player.

Example: you start a cop chase @ heat level 1x, you're in a fast car and step on it. In less than 30 seconds the cops car is far behind, they say they loose visual and the pursuit ends. You do the same @ heat level 3 - 4x. THE SAME CARS are now able to follow you with 200 mph !!!!

Example 2: you get rammed by some Rhinos, you are almost on a halt and one of the police cars is in front of you and tries to block you from driving over. Now, I don't mind that

but the police car doesn't respect anymore not even some basic laws of physics. They are glued to your car, they just move in any directions, they are almost capable of STRAFING

, just to keep you in steady

Example 3: you start a race, miss a few corners and some opponent car is in front of you, 3 - 5 seconds. You try to catch up and no matter what speed you are driving, the opponent keeps increasing the difference. And the reverse. If you are 10 seconds in front of all opponents, they catch up with you even if you drive perfectly. They are able to take you even on the outside of the corners. If you push one of them in a wall, he will be able to reverse and get back on the road in less than 2 milliseconds.

And examples may continue.

I think EA tried too much to keep the same adrenaline level for every player, no matter the skill level. If you are good at game driving or just a beginner, EA tries to offer you the same "thrill". Well, they exagerate.

But then again, this is just a personal opinion... I greatly appreciate the visual experience of the game, the sound seems somewhat improved from UG2, the cars look awesome. I perfectly agree with all those who complain from the lack of the tuning side (performance/visual). But the gameplay is really the greatest minus I can think of.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 25 Nov 2005, 13:44

Actually, all this happened behind the scenes. Try use the LOOK BACK feature. It usually won't happen.

Kid Cro · Post by **Kid Cro** » 25 Nov 2005, 14:28

The cops are kamikaze in this game. But look that on this way.
If the game is more realistic whenn cop run into your car you would be wrecked.Right? And you would have to buy a new one or fix the crashed car if he can be fixed coz whenn SUV run into you car cannot be recognized after.
That would be borring coz in evry race cops are after you so you from 10 times manage to run fro themm 5 times and 5 times you have to buy a new car.
That will cost you much.Or if you could dead in game that would be great, wouldn it? And end the game,and start again but that is alsu unrealistic coz you cannot be borred again.Man the games would never be so much realsitic that you could enjoj in playing like you are doing that in real life. Get real.Do you even know why is called THE GAME .But what is your point exactly what are you trying to prove UltimusRex??

WonkaVW · Post by **WonkaVW** » 25 Nov 2005, 15:42

If the game were completely realistic, it would be boring as hell. Your car would break down nearly all the time, crashing into anything would do horrible things to the body...

If the cop mode were realistic, they would chase you up to about 60mph. They would most definitely back off after that, especially if you're causing a danger to the public. In that case they'd probably set up spike strips ahead of you or just back the hell off to catch you later. When you get arrested there will be no impound strikes, paying off fines or get out of jail free cards. You go to federal pound me in the ass prison, and your pimped ride gets turned into a cube.

Sometimes realism sucks.

sigsegv · Post by **sigsegv** » 26 Nov 2005, 00:25

It's not about realism. It's all about game rules. NFS has it's own "physics", as any game in this world. Which in NFS's case, the AI does not respect.

l_racer · Post by **l_racer** » 26 Nov 2005, 01:15

EA could have really exaggerrated by putting fighter jets trying to destroy your car with missiles...

Come on, the more tactics, the better it is. Don't complain about rhinos even if they are "deadly" and fake.

TheNoobofFerraris · Post by **TheNoobofFerraris** » 26 Nov 2005, 07:45

Well there are a few unrealistic things in the game and I do hate those SUVS but I have a little car to slip by them and a big Mustang to give them a run for their money, but without some of those things would the game really be any fun at all?

You should be happy EA even came out with Most Wanted you know..

UltimusRex · Post by **UltimusRex** » 26 Nov 2005, 09:50

you are all missing my point... and of course, as sigsegv said, its probably all personal opinion, but let me try to make it as dry and as clear as i can.

EA went for a certain degree of realism in the pursuit mode, and obviously went through painstaking work to effectively recreate real police tactics. My beef here is not with the lack of realism, i play Gran Turismo for realism, i play NFS for flat out fun. My beef with the Rhinos is that they went through so much trouble to bring real world police tactics into the game, and IMHO they did so very well and made pursuits VERY enjoyable... until you get nailed by a Rhino which is COMPLETELY out of place, not because it is so unrealistic, but because among all the other very true-to-life tactics, the Rhinos' tactics would NEVER ever be even considered to be used in real life. It is just so absurdly out of place.

You can argue about realism and arcade vs. sim all you want, but that's not what my point is, my point is simply that they were going for real world chase tactics (as i believe it states on the box or in the manual), not neccessarily real world chase physics, but real world chase TACTICS, and the Rhinos are in direct contrast to that, since those tactics would NEVER be used in the "real world".

and would someone please explain to me how taking out the Rhinos would eliminate every bit of fun in the game? that's the second person to say something along the lines of, "would the game really be any fun at all?" Personally, i don't think it would make it any less fun at all, they are actually a very tiny part of the game.

and sigsegv, i agree with you about some of the weird stuff the AI cars are able to do.

Kid Cro · Post by **Kid Cro** » 26 Nov 2005, 14:43

ok! I respect your opinion.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 26 Nov 2005, 15:47

UltimusRex wrote:and would someone please explain to me how taking out the Rhinos would eliminate every bit of fun in the game?

It's pretty easy actually if you're eager to do it...This is my strategy: If you happen to see them coming from far distance, just make a hard swerve to the left or right once they are near to you, because their attacks are pretty predictable actually, and they'll actually bang onto the cops chasing you from behind eventually.

If, unfortunately, things didn't go well as planned and you can't see them and you happen to be hit, immediately after you got hit, REVERSE your car and make a 180 degree turn from the reverse and speed off (best results when NOS is used for this), and make sure everything is done perfectly to prevent your ass from getting busted. I've tried this myself, and my ass has never been arrested since.

UltimusRex · Post by **UltimusRex** » 27 Nov 2005, 03:33

Andre_online wrote:
UltimusRex wrote:and would someone please explain to me how taking out the Rhinos would eliminate every bit of fun in the game?
It's pretty easy actually if you're eager to do it...This is my strategy: If you happen to see them coming from far distance, just make a hard swerve to the left or right once they are near to you, because their attacks are pretty predictable actually, and they'll actually bang onto the cops chasing you from behind eventually.

If, unfortunately, things didn't go well as planned and you can't see them and you happen to be hit, immediately after you got hit, REVERSE your car and make a 180 degree turn from the reverse and speed off (best results when NOS is used for this), and make sure everything is done perfectly to prevent your ass from getting busted. I've tried this myself, and my ass has never been arrested since.

WHAT is pretty easy? that wasn't my question at all. Why is it that nobody seems to be able to understand what my point is? nobody has to agree, but i have made my point over and over and over and nobody seems to get it... i realize that many people probably just read my first post and replied to it, where it did sound as though my issue was with the lack of realism. But one more time, that is not my point.

My problem is not with the realism of the physics or the game in general, my problem is in the realism of the tactics, the TACTICS, the REAL police tactics that EA tried so hard to reproduce in MW... They did so well in reproducing them, but then threw in these Rhinos which have no place among all the other tried-and-true real-world police tactics... the Rhinos are an oddity among great, realistic tactics, that is my whole point.