What car do you drive ?

viper16 · Post by **viper16** » 23 May 2007, 03:13

actually there is a 1600hp shot of NOS for around $2000

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 23 May 2007, 05:41

yea and lets see how long it takes to put some nice holes in your pistons.
@ steelsnake mind you those were carbeurated push-rod engines 350hp and 400 lb ft of torque from a 350 carbeurated engine is pretty good. but virtually all of those muscle engines were de-nutted for fuel economy but they would last forever. now the 07 regulations for diesel vehicles is waaay out of hand. ex a pickup that weighs almost 4 tons and has a 6.7L diesel engine is cleaner than one of those smartfortwo's which is cleaner than most gas powered vehicles.
o yea and your from europe so your emissions are probably different i have no clue what kind of emissions regulations you had over there in the 70's and today but here california is very strict

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 23 May 2007, 11:28

darknight788 wrote:Ex a pickup that weighs almost 4 tons and has a 6.7L diesel engine is cleaner than one of those smartfortwo's which is cleaner than most gas powered vehicles.

No it isn't. It. Just. Isn't.
Modern petrol engines of equivilent size are only marginly behind similalry sized diesel engines in terms of emissions.
Plus although diesel emissions are less, (I may be wrong) I think theres more chance of more toxic chemical release, as they have a higher rate of incomplete combustion.

viper16 wrote:actually there is a 1600hp shot of NOS for around $2000

I find that difficult to believe when a 75 shot costs about $1000 to buy and fit.
Plus the ammount of reinforcing you'd need to do to the engine and drivetrain would be idiotic.

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 23 May 2007, 14:19

Even a progressive 1600bhp shot of N20 would blow a hole in the side of your block. And as SS said, a 75 wet shot would set you back almost that much...

The whole idea behind combustion engines is that, the bigger the explosion, the more power. This is done in three simple elements. Fuel, oxygen, and a spark.
Nitrous is a form of forced induction. Think about it, despite the way they work, what do turbo/superchargers do? They force extra air into the cylinder. Nitrous oxide uses exactly the same idea, and does it in a different way. The Nitrogen is there to take some of the heat away, and to help the oxygen actually react with the fuel. The main idea is still to get extra oxygen into the cylinder, which is done upon command.

if you take n20 away from a N/A car it is still N/A

And if you take a supercharger away, what is it then? Its N/A. A supercharger isnt some magical device, it is essentially a bolt-on, belt driven turbo designed to get more oxygen into the explosion.

viper16 · Post by **viper16** » 23 May 2007, 16:17

heres the link to a 1200 shot link

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 23 May 2007, 17:05

@ grez if you add a supercharger then obviously it has forced induction and if you take it away you have a N/A engine. so how is N2O a form of forced induction ? wouldnt the definition of induction in engine terms be how the engine gets its air ?
@ steelsnake the example with the 6.7L engine will pass emissions for 2010 in california the smartfortwo will not, and yes diesels do have a higher rate of incomplete combustion

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 23 May 2007, 18:44

darknight788 wrote:@ grez if you add a supercharger then obviously it has forced induction and if you take it away you have a N/A engine. so how is N2O a form of forced induction ? wouldnt the definition of induction in engine terms be how the engine gets its air ?
@ steelsnake the example with the 6.7L engine will pass emissions for 2010 in california the smartfortwo will not, and yes diesels do have a higher rate of incomplete combustion

Firstly, Nitrous Oxide counts as a form of forced induction because FORCED INDUCTION implies that something is forcing more oxygen into the cylinders. In this case it's a tank of gas with a higher oxyge/mass ratio than air, so it essentially performs the same role.

As for my question, the reason it's set up like that is because the Cali regulations don't apply to trucks. Because of the nature of Cali, and their dependance on road transportation, vehicles over a certain weight don't need to pass emissions test.

Additionally, the regulations in Cali are liable to be kicked out soon, as they are tehcnically an infringement of the US constitution and it's ammendments regarding civil liberties.

&&&& For that nitrous link, that isn't the power boost suplied by the nitrous. That's the applicable power range for it. A 15lb bottle of direct port won't put you close to 1200bhp without a very large pair of turbochargers or superchargers lending in a helping hand.

Post by **TheStig** » 23 May 2007, 22:37

A big 6+ ltr Diesel engine will never be cleaner then a small 1.0 petrol engine, it's simply not possible.
Maybe they compare it in terms of total vehicle weight and then measure the amount of polution the engine makes per Kilo/pound.
but even calculating like that does not make something a clean engine.

In europe we drive alot of dieselengines and not only on pickuptrucks we use them on small cars like the peugeot 206 and other small cars. cause they are cheaper to run, diesel is cheaper and they do more miles to the gallon, downside in most countries is that you have to pay more tax because diesel is more enviromentally unfriendly, then petrol.
Modern diesel engines are often poluting less per mile then a petrol engine with the same displacement, but not when you compare 1 gallon of fuel consumed, for each car.
And because diesel cars here are mainly used for alot of miles a year they do in general polute more.... but that's a diffirent story.

DarrenR21373 · Post by **DarrenR21373** » 24 May 2007, 00:30

According to the modern obsession with CO2 emissions, a Diesel car is much cleaner than the equivalent petrol (ignoring particulates).

As an example, I'll compare the last 2 cars I've owned: 2003 1.6l 16v Vauxhall Astra Petrol compared to 2004 1.9l TDi 110 Seat Leon (similar model ages and horse power outputs of approx 105 bhp and 110bhp - we won't mention torque or fuel economy, we don't want to emabarass the petrol too much

)

The 1.6 16V Astra pumps out 158 g/km compared to 135 g/km for the diesel Seat. I'm paying LESS road tax to run a quicker car, which as an added bonus is still perfect mechanically after 70,000 miles, whereas the Astra had picked up an awful judder every time I took off at 35,000 - hence why I sold it at 66,000...

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 24 May 2007, 05:59

steelsnake00 wrote:As for my question, the reason it's set up like that is because the Cali regulations don't apply to trucks. Because of the nature of Cali, and their dependance on road transportation, vehicles over a certain weight don't need to pass emissions test.

it does apply to trucks that are under 26,000 lbs GVWR which many "pickup" trucks are. my truck did not have legal emissions for california that model year thus why they offered a de-tuned version for california. they do not apply for class 7,8 trucks i believe maybe even class 6 trucks.
anyways im driving my truck less more because of the fuel prices ....... $3.32 for diesel when you have a 42 gallon tank means $100+ fill-ups . o well
and i never said a 6+ liter diesel will be cleaner than a 1.0 liter but the 6+ one will pass emissions for 2010 which means it is cleaner relative to size

Porsche-AG · Post by **Porsche-AG** » 25 May 2007, 00:37

Don't even talk about gas prices. I live in oil-rich Alberta and according to Wikipedia:

The Athabasca Oil Sands (sometimes known as the Athabasca Tar sands) have estimated non-conventional oil reserves approximately equal to the conventional oil reserves of the rest of the world, estimated to be 1.6 trillion barrels (254 kmÂ³).

And gas prices are still extremely high here, at a whopping $1.23 per LITRE. This converts to approximately $4.66 per US Gallon, which is ridiculous considering the amount of oil we have. And don't even bother trying to convert $4.66 into USD, the Canadian dollar is close to 93 cents US.

Post by **TheStig** » 25 May 2007, 01:46

Man be Glad that you don't live in europe.
Where I live the price is now just over 1.40 (1.88 USD)

a littre diesel is around 1.10 if I am not mistaken.

Porsche-AG · Post by **Porsche-AG** » 25 May 2007, 02:20

Well I'm not surprised at Europe prices, it's just that Alberta (My province/state/territory) has such a vast oil reserve, which should lower prices here. In Europe, I don't think there are many major oil reserves, so high prices (due to shipping costs and whatnot) should be expected. Not to mention you guys have many fuel-efficient compact cars developed just for Europe, so the dent in the wallet isn't as big.

viper16 · Post by **viper16** » 25 May 2007, 02:48

uh stig isnt a $1.88 USD cheap in europe

xHaZxMaTx · Post by **xHaZxMaTx** » 25 May 2007, 03:37

Porsche-AG, those are tar-sands, which are very difficult to extract oil from. So there may be a lot of oil, but it's not efficient enough to spend the money required to extract it from the sands.

Porsche-AG · Post by **Porsche-AG** » 25 May 2007, 03:45

I realize that, but with the new technology being created here, it's getting a lot easier to extract and that still doesn't account for the excessively high prices.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 25 May 2007, 05:48

i know prices around the world are much worse than 3.32 a gallon but it still hurts ya know

Post by **TheStig** » 25 May 2007, 14:12

1.88 is the normal price (it does go up and down could be that its below 1.40 E but it could also be higher already)

The whole oil prices don't have very much to do with if you live in a area where the oil is, yes it often is lower in places where they oil is.

The whole system in wich the oil prices grow is so big and unlogical cause something on the other side of the world can make your oil price rise like crazy while you buy let's say "local" oil

In europe we don't have oil, but several countries do have natural gas, eighter on land or in the North Sea. even the gas prices rise with the oil prices if something happens.
Like with Katrina the oil suply was lower then normal, but the gas suply from europe was not touched (logically) but the gas prices also went up, and it had nothing to do with the storm.

But guys can try to go back to the original topic

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 25 May 2007, 17:44

darknight788 wrote:i know prices around the world are much worse than 3.32 a gallon but it still hurts ya know

Having owned a Turbocharged Audi (19mpg on a good day) whilst petrol prices were in excess of Â£1.04 (that's nearly $2.20 a litre, let ALONE a gallon) no American has a right to complain about petrol prices.

Grez~Supra_RZ-S · Post by **Grez~Supra_RZ-S** » 25 May 2007, 19:27

My SX struggled 10mpg if that makes you feel any better. Mind you, the compression was down just a touch. :p

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 25 May 2007, 19:59

That was about the MPG I was looking at on the second remap, when it was overfueling something chronic.
Then again, 750cc's were a bit big...

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 26 May 2007, 06:05

i have every right to complain about the prices its called freedom of speech.

and im not really complaining about the prices but if you spent 100$ to fill your vehicle up wouldnt you have to say something about that ?
and damn you guys get horrible fuel mileage

i get 20 mpg's with my so called 4 ton rolling giant

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 26 May 2007, 08:58

$100 is only Â£50 and it costs me more than that to fill up the beamer.
Then it only lasts for 200-odd miles, and that's if im careful!

baadmw · Post by **baadmw** » 26 May 2007, 10:18

my fathers car consumes around 11l/100km in suburban traffic (translates to about 23mpg?). every fill up is around 60l (about 15gallons?) which makes every fill up cost more than 80â‚¬ ($100++) the gas price is about 1,40â‚¬/litre here.

darknight788 · Post by **darknight788** » 26 May 2007, 18:34

ive started using fuel additives that is supposed to help MPG's in both my vehicles, seems to work a little bit and it cleans the injectors out and you can tell there is a little bit more power