American Cars or European Cars?

Nitrodemon McLaren · Post by **Nitrodemon McLaren** » 23 Nov 2008, 14:20

European exotic and high-performance sports cars FTW.

Though an American hot rod is nice too.

FOREVER_LIVERPOOL · Post by **FOREVER_LIVERPOOL** » 25 Nov 2008, 20:09

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EUROPEAN!!!!!!!

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 25 Nov 2008, 20:53

Any reason that's in two seperate posts?

Post by **TheStig** » 27 Nov 2008, 21:12

what two posts?

KammyworldRacerGT4 · Post by **KammyworldRacerGT4** » 30 Nov 2008, 06:21

Hmm... Never liked exotics, never will. Always hated them, always will. If I can't have a Toyota, at least give me the next best thing, a Dodge!

(If you were to look in the dictionary of biased or one-sided, this poll fits perfectly)

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 30 Nov 2008, 06:43

KammyworldRacerGT4 wrote:If I can't have a Toyota, at least give me the next best thing, a Dodge

Sense.

Your comment makes none.

Koenigsegg_Rox · Post by **Koenigsegg_Rox** » 30 Nov 2008, 07:45

Yeah how is a Dodge the next best thing to a Toyota? Toyota is sophisticated in their cars, Dodge is not.....just take the Nitro for an example....

KammyworldRacerGT4 · Post by **KammyworldRacerGT4** » 30 Nov 2008, 15:34

boganbusman wrote:
KammyworldRacerGT4 wrote:If I can't have a Toyota, at least give me the next best thing, a Dodge
Sense.

Your comment makes none.

Opinion.

I'm entitled to it, which you can't bash me for.

Post by **TheStig** » 30 Nov 2008, 15:39

Then you have to state it as your opinion, cause the facts tell otherwise

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 30 Nov 2008, 16:51

KammyworldRacerGT4 wrote:
boganbusman wrote:
KammyworldRacerGT4 wrote:If I can't have a Toyota, at least give me the next best thing, a Dodge
Sense.

Your comment makes none.
Opinion.

I'm entitled to it, which you can't bash me for.

Toyota and Dodge are a whole different breed.. It's like comparing a Porsche with a Nissan. And besides, Toyota is not an exotic - it's a tuner. I have to side Bogan for this one.

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 01 Dec 2008, 12:18

Toyota aren't a tuner, they're a car manufacturer who for the most part produces small hatchbacks and saloon cars for pensioners and families.

Koenigsegg_Rox · Post by **Koenigsegg_Rox** » 01 Dec 2008, 12:46

And the TRD Aurion for the idiot with more money than sense....

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 01 Dec 2008, 13:08

How's that?
A standard Aurion can match an FPV GT in a straight line.
A TRD Aurion is more powerful than the standard Aurion and still costs about $5000 less than an FPV GT.

Idiotic indeed.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 01 Dec 2008, 21:23

steelsnake00 wrote:Toyota aren't a tuner, they're a car manufacturer who for the most part produces small hatchbacks and saloon cars for pensioners and families.

OK. Maybe you're right. But it's got a few lines of being a tuner car as opposed to Dodge, am I right? I've seen a heavily modified Corolla Altis before.

RedCarDriver · Post by **RedCarDriver** » 02 Dec 2008, 01:38

steelsnake00 wrote:Toyota aren't a tuner, they're a car manufacturer who for the most part produces small hatchbacks and saloon cars for pensioners and families.

Well, they aren't manufacturers of tunable cars ANYMORE. IMO, their best cars were all of the 2JZ Lexus models and the Supra Turbo, but they killed all of those off around 2003. Now, in my opinion, their only car worth anything is the IS F (performance-wise); now they're becoming more like GM minus the Corvette and Camaro. lol

KammyworldRacerGT4 · Post by **KammyworldRacerGT4** » 02 Dec 2008, 03:51

RedCarDriver wrote:
steelsnake00 wrote:Toyota aren't a tuner, they're a car manufacturer who for the most part produces small hatchbacks and saloon cars for pensioners and families.
Well, they aren't manufacturers of tunable cars ANYMORE. IMO, their best cars were all of the 2JZ Lexus models and the Supra Turbo, but they killed all of those off around 2003. Now, in my opinion, their only car worth anything is the IS F (performance-wise); now they're becoming more like GM minus the Corvette and Camaro. lol

That sucks. Toyota needs to get back to their glory days and revive the Celica if nothing else.

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 02 Dec 2008, 07:09

I agree. It really annoys me that Toyota is involved in almost every form of motorsport all over the world, yet they don't make any sports cars.
Even though it wouldn't make them much money, or possibly create a loss, they should just do it because they can.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 02 Dec 2008, 09:45

Actually, they did. The Celica is the one and only sports car they made, as far as I know. But it's nothing compared to Honda's line of legendary sports cars.

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 02 Dec 2008, 09:59

Umm, Andre, I'm talking about their current line up. Toyota have had many sports and GT cars in the past (MR2, Supra, Soarer, 2000GT, and Celica as you mentioned) but now they don't have any.

Andre_online · Post by **Andre_online** » 02 Dec 2008, 10:05

Oh, I mentioned Celica 'cuz I assume it's the latest and the last sports car Toyota has manufactured, yet. I didn't forget about the Supra and MR2.

xHaZxMaTx · Post by **xHaZxMaTx** » 02 Dec 2008, 10:08

Wasn't Toyota supposed to be coming out with a new Supra? Or was that scrapped?

steelsnake00 · Post by **steelsnake00** » 02 Dec 2008, 11:58

RedCarDriver wrote:Well, they aren't manufacturers of tunable cars ANYMORE. IMO, their best cars were all of the 2JZ Lexus models and the Supra Turbo, but they killed all of those off around 2003. Now, in my opinion, their only car worth anything is the IS F (performance-wise); now they're becoming more like GM minus the Corvette and Camaro. lol

Don't be stupid. Every car is tunable. RuF and Cargraphic, amongst others, do it with Porsche, the likes of Alpina, AC Schnitzer and CA Automotive fiddle BMW's, Audis get modified by 034 and Dahlback, Mercedes by Carlsson and Brabus.

The only tunable cars that Toyota ever really made were the GT-Four versions of the Celica, MR2 Turbo, and the Gen 3 and Gen 4 Supra. Okay, you can add the Starlet GT turbo if you want, but you don't exactly see many of them. Companies like Toyota don't build particularly high performance cars anymore because their market has been cut up amongst big, mainly German companies, and there's little, if anything, left for the manufacturers of everyday cars. Got Â£20K to spend on a sports car? You go second-hand and get a Boxter S, or buy something usable everyday and still fun, like a VW Scirocco or Megane 225. Â£25K to spend? Second-hand BMW M3, 996 911 S or 4S, older Audi S4/RS4 or even an old generation RS6. Those who have money to splash out on modern sports cars tend to go for prestige makes- Porsche, remember, is one of the most profitable companies (9th overall), let alone car companies, in the entire world.

Koenigsegg_Rox · Post by **Koenigsegg_Rox** » 02 Dec 2008, 12:56

boganbusman wrote:How's that?
A standard Aurion can match an FPV GT in a straight line.
A TRD Aurion is more powerful than the standard Aurion and still costs about $5000 less than an FPV GT.

Idiotic indeed.

What's idiotic is that it has 241kW through the front wheels....in a FAMILY FREAKING CAR! And of course it'd beat the GT in a straight line, the F6 can beat it in a straight line, so that therefore is not an argument. If it is a family car, what the hell is giving it more power and tightening up the suspension and racy-ing up the interior going to achieve in sales. There is a reason why the critics have rated it poorly. Perhaps read a little bit more? One of the most important rules in car driving is, of course, power isn't everything. For the same money the better alternative would be a Passat R36. At least it can take a corner properly.

KammyworldRacerGT4 · Post by **KammyworldRacerGT4** » 02 Dec 2008, 13:38

boganbusman wrote:I agree. It really annoys me that Toyota is involved in almost every form of motorsport all over the world, yet they don't make any sports cars.
Even though it wouldn't make them much money, or possibly create a loss, they should just do it because they can.

But they wont' because as we know the modern world... it's all about money. That p***es me off. It really does.

boganbusman · Post by **boganbusman** » 03 Dec 2008, 08:36

Koenigsegg_Rox wrote:What's idiotic is that it has 241kW through the front wheels....in a FAMILY FREAKING CAR! And of course it'd beat the GT in a straight line, the F6 can beat it in a straight line, so that therefore is not an argument.

Not an argument? The GT has like 315kW going through the rear wheels.
And of course the F6 is faster, is has more torque and less weight.

Koenigsegg_Rox wrote:If it is a family car, what the hell is giving it more power and tightening up the suspension and racy-ing up the interior going to achieve in sales.

I think it's safe to say that Toyota knows more than anyone else in the world, especially you, about how to sell cars.

Koenigsegg_Rox wrote:There is a reason why the critics have rated it poorly. Perhaps read a little bit more? One of the most important rules in car driving is, of course, power isn't everything. For the same money the better alternative would be a Passat R36. At least it can take a corner properly.

An R36 is not the same money. Especially after you factor in the higher servicing costs, it's not even close.
Apart from that, if you base all of your car opinions on what critics tell you then you've already lost this argument. Critics are just journalists, people who usually have no racing or mechanical background whatsoever, and think they know more about cars than other people.

I'm not going to say that the R36 is a worse car, but calling the TRD Aurion 'idiotic' just doesn't make sense. Toyota doesn't build crazy cars anymore, they only make cars that make money. Hell why am I arguing about this, you've never even driven any of these cars . . .

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