Tuning for dummies

2004 Need for Speed Underground 2
Jmac-
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Post by Jmac- »

Here's what I do (not the best, but it also means I don't have to sit down and fine tune for hours) ...

For circuit ...

Lowered all the way
All other suspension/steering set to full
1st gear set to have a some slip when dropping the clutch, but not to the point where I spin out
6th gear set to full and final drive set to minimum
Take 6th gear speed and subtract 1st gear speed (say 220 mph - 50 mph) and then divide by 5 (34) ... Add that number to each succesive gear (50, 84, 118, 152, 186, 220)
Aerodynamics set to full
Tires set to full, Brake Bias set to 0.25
Nitrous set to ~3 seconds (AI is gay, so I save the nitrous for the end to pull away/catch up)
ECU - Image
Turbo - Image

Once again, I know this isn't optimum, but I don't really care considering I don't race online ... I'll do hours of tuning on GT4, but I don't think it's worth the time on this game ...
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Post by Moosehead115 »

JMAC has a fairly good setup there, i dont recommend putting the suspension ALL The way (have a few mm of red showing to the max settings for springs and shocks) ... it makes it a little more forgiving (easier to get control of it again)
Generally i have my gearing set for huge amounts of accel.
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Post by Jmac- »

I do as well on street X, drift, and URL, but I don't like to have to change my gearing on circuit/sprint every time I run into a highway course ...

I'll try the softer suspension and see if it makes a difference ... :)
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

Ive found the best way to do it is to set up different cars for different races. For long races with plenty of straights, I use my Supra (geared for top end, with boost kicking in later on the rpm.) For shorter races with lots of corners, I use an RX7 geared for acceleration. (the quicker you can get out of a corner, the better off youll be).
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Post by anfrey »

up on stage 3 right now.. my ae86 handles every type of race without a hitch
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Post by SkyZinne »

Hmm..any suggestions on a Nissan 240sx? I mean for circuit wise.
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

Rule of thumb for any rwd car is that you will need to tune out oversteer. So, you'll want a stiffer setup in the front and generally softer in the rear.

This brings to mind another point about tuning for different drive layouts:

The key thing to remember is how weight transfer impacts the drive wheels. In a rear-wheel drive car, accelerating shifts weight to the rear: so the drive tires are getting more traction in this situation. However the front wheels have weight taken off of them during acceleration, which means reduced steering. The opposite is true during braking (obviously).
This is one reason you have to be careful about throttle and brake application when managing a turn. Too much braking on entry to the turn and you can offload too much weight from the rear causing an oversteer spin. At the same time you will overload the front tires and possibly exceed the traction limit of the steering tires, resulting in understeer. Do both at the same time and you will be in a slide, or worse, a spin.

For front wheel drive cars, the situation is a little different. Accelerating takes weight off of the steering tires while at the same time taking weight off the drive tires (since they are the same thing in front wheel drive cars). Again, the opposite holds true for braking. This is why front wheel drive cars are especially succeptible to understeer during acceleration. Having the engine hanging over the front tires makes the situation worse. During breaking you can experience understeer by overloading the already overweight front tires which can then easily lead to a quick-snapping oversteer because of off-loading the rear tires. .

Most camps agree that the best balance for handling is a rear-wheel drive, front or mid-engine car. In the right hands, a rear-wheel drive car can be more easily controlled since the drive tires and steering tires are on separate ends, allowing throttle and steering inputs to operate indepedently. The best way to practice this control is to use the loop on the training course. Unfortunately it's not a complete loop, but it's a good place to practice. The goal is to steer into the corner and control the actual direction of the car with the gas pedal. "Steering with the throttle" is a handy trick and once mastered can make a RWD car a fantastically precise weapon.

AWD drive cars are a bit of a mystery for most people. The best rule of thumb here is to set the suspension more neutrally front to rear, with a slight tendency for softer settings in the rear, and keep it generally stiff. AWD cars are very forgiving on a track. Give too much gas and they usually just slide (unless the suspension is unbalanced front to rear, or braking forces cause the rear end to come around). If you get into a slide all you have to do is let off the gas a little (not completely!) and you'll pick right back up.

With all these thoughts in mind, the best way to imagine how to tune (and drive) any car is to use the traction circle (excuse the quality..I'm no artist).


Image

Every car has a traction circle. And every car can accelerate, brake, and turn. The way each car handles them is different, and you represent this by changing the size (diameter) of the circle in relationship to the other factors (ie. the circle changes size but the crosshairs representing accel, brake, and turning do not). If a car has more traction capability then the circle gets larger. It is possible, on one extreme, for a car to have so much traction that it could never accel, brake, or turn beyond the limits of that traction, so the circle would encompass the crosshairs in that case (and the car would never slide, skid, oversteer, understeer, burnout, etc.).

Now, since 99.999% of cars can exceed their traction limits in some way, you can imagine the traction circle as it is drawn here.

Anything going on inside the circle is considered traction. Put another way, the area inside the circle is the total amount of traction available to you. Anything going on outside of the circle is considered loss of traction.

If you accelerate beyond the limit of traction (ie. you move to a point directly below and outside the circle) then you will do a burnout. If you brake beyond the limit of traction (ie. you move to a point directly above and outside the circle) then you skid (or lock your tires). If you turn beyond the limit of traction, you slide. Enabling any one of these forces in one direction reduces the total amount of traction available to maintain control. Combining factors eats up the amount of available traction even faster.

When you add stickier tires to a car, you increase the size of the circle. When you add more power to a car, you essentially descrease the size of the circle (or increase the size of the crosshairs, depending on how you look at it). Your goal with suspension tuning is to ensure the maximum amount of traction within all four quadrants of the circle given any track situation. Your goal as a driver is to safely use the maximum amount of traction available at any given time.

Seems simplistic but if you dwell on it for a while, the traction circle gives you a fantastic mental reference for tuning your car. Just as you tune the ECU curve in NFS:U2 to offer the most power in the rpm range that you spend the most time, you want to tune your suspension to give you the most traction given the dynamics and purpose of the car you are driving (FWD, RWD, AWD, Turbo, URL, Drag, Drift, Sprint, etc.).

There are many, many other factors involved (eg. tire slip angles, friction, air pressure, temperature, camber angles, etc.) but NFS:U2 doesn't account for them so I won't go over it here. But you can bet you're grandmama's cookies that they designed the handling dynamics around the traction circle concept.

Hope that helps. Probably more than you wanted to know but I could write about this stuff all day long. :)

Cheers,
Last edited by SmokyTyrz on 27 Nov 2004, 18:20, edited 1 time in total.
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anfrey
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Post by anfrey »

i love your posts, especially since they are more applicable to everyday driving than gaming ;)
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

Thx. It's fun stuff to think about. You should really check out the books I mentioned in my earlier post. Especially the one by Paul Frere. Great read and you'll learn a ton of good stuff. Of course, the only way to make it concrete is to put it all into practice. I read all the literature for years before my first autocross and roadraces and none of it really sank in until then.

Cheers
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Post by Moosehead115 »

with the traction circle, an expansion on the same idea is to have 2 circles on the same "crosshairs" , one circle represents the traction "budget" for the front tires, the other circle for the rear tires. you can adjust these circles with the tools provided.
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

Yup that's right. That's the Venn Diagram use of the traction circles. It's actually a better but more complex way to evaluate the traction equation. I've seen other models that throw in other variables (as more circles) like weight transfer, g-force, etc. Adding more circles just makes it more specific for communicating the issues at hand. The area where all the circles intersect is the total available traction. As the circles begin to diverge and separate then you are describing how the individual factors effect available traction.

To make it even more complex, I've seen diagrams where the circle is not a circle, but instead is a dynamic shape that is always changing based on a number of tracked variables. Real-time modelling animations of this stuff is fun to see. I would prefer it if game developers spent more time on those kinds of "black box" data collection and post-race analysis instead of making glitzy replays.

Cheers,
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aggressivej0
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Post by aggressivej0 »

that is really great smoky!...

i hope you could help me...how to tune he RX7's on dyno and get the best ride of it in circuit :cry: :o

my RX's is all on level three...and i think its a RWD :roll:

hope to hear from you soon!
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

Hi Aggressive..

If I were you I would ignore the dyno for the purposes of the game. In NFS:U2 the dyno only really comes into play for drag racing. But, if you want to know how to get impressive dyno numbers then all you have to do is tune your ECU and turbo for the most power between 2000 and 8000 rpm. Of course, that doesn't necessarily give you the best power delivery for circuit. For circuit you actually want your power delivery to sit between your lower and upper shift points (eg. 3500 and 9000 rpms).

Yes, the RX7 is RWD. So you'll need to tune accordingly. It sounds like you may be asking for specific settings or numbers for the suspension tune but that is tough to provide. Everyone has their own preferences. My preference for a RWD setup is to be slightly loose in the rear so I can steer through a turn with the throttle if necessary, but not so much that it "lets go" unexpectedly. Those setting may not be right for you as I do not know what your handling preferences are (eg. maybe you prefer a car that is more neutral, or one that has a tendency for understeer).

My suggestion is this: NFS:U2 does a pretty good job with the default settings for each type of racing (circuit, drag, URL, etc). If you just gently *tweak* the settings after several test laps to balance it "just right" for your preferences then you should be good to go.

Or, if you want just tell me what your preferences are for a specific car and I'll set one up and post the results here. It would be better if you did it yourself though cuz if I do it then you won't know how I did it or why it works.

Cheers,
Last edited by SmokyTyrz on 29 Nov 2004, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by aggressivej0 »

very well said Smoky...

then we got a deal ok...ayl tune my RX7 with a Circuit map..(well im pickin it up right now :D ) then ayl give you the numbers aight...

well here in the phillipines...we got mini tourneys goin on so im askin for some help here :lol: glad youre here :wink:

you play online on NFS1?.... im kinda good on UG1 8)

but i think im havin probs here un UG2..by the way..wats the best car u think here in UG2?

well thanks again bro! ayl keep in touch
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

Nah, I haven't played NFS since PU on the Playstation. U2 really got my attention. Turned out I should have been playing U1 all along. :) I thought it was an arcade game. :?

Shoot those numbers to me when you're done tunin and I'll take a look at em. Again, it comes down to driving style so my input will be more personal than anything, but I'll tell you what I find. If you don't want to post your setup here, email it to me at [email protected] Just send me numbers for each setting on each page (all pages, so i can duplicate the exact setup). Don't worry about screen shots.

This should be fun!

l8r
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Post by Maverick1707 »

damn interesting post u got here ! just what I was looking for...

The thing is that I like to play ranked online drag games, and I see ppl with full speed and accel. bars. As ranked cars must only have lvl3 parts (no uniques), it's obvious the raise them by tuning. I tried to tune my car for drag with no success, coz whatever I change, it doesn't seem to affect my bars. I tried tuning 1 thing at a time, to see how it affects my bars, but they remain exactly as before the tune.

Could you please help me tune my car (RX-7) for dragging? I mean which r the most important parts to tune for that kind of game? what values should I use for those parts?

I thought I knew sth about this, but I feel kinda lost when I tune sth and it doesn't seem to take effect. (at least in my speed & accel bars and dyno test)

Thx in advance
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

Your speed and accel bars are only affected by the parts. The tuning of the ECU and turbo only effect how the power is delivered within the bar area that your car shows.

Tuning for drag racing is easy. No sway bar up front, 3/4 sway bar in the rear, 1/4 - 1/2 springs up front, 0 - 1/4 springs in the rear. Soft shocks up front, very soft shocks in the rear. Tune your diff and gearing for the track you run the most so you don't blow your motor. I tune the gearing so that I'm halfway to blowing the motor at the end of the track. This means I have to change my gearing for the longer tracks, but I usually just run Bayside.

The suspension makes sense if you think about it...you want traction in the rear (you shouldn't drag a fwd car) when you launch. So, no sway bar, soft settings up front more easily moves the weight to the rear. Very soft settings in the rear allows the weight to be transferred quickly and instantly. Eg., my burnout times are usually only 1.x seconds. My best quarter mile in my 240sx is 7.08. My best time at the bayside track is 22.11. Perfect shifts count!! Let off the nitrous between shifts so you don't waste it. Tune nitrous for high power instead of duration.

Before the race, get on the gas. You need to learn where to hold the pedal (by listening to the motor) so that it is in the green BEFORE the countdown starts. Otherwise you won't have time to find that spot. Launching in the green zone is the key to winning a race.

Hope that helps.
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Post by Maverick1707 »

thx, i will test ur tips in a few, but, how come some ppl in ranked games got a car with full accel & speed bars if they can only use lvl3 parts and no uniques?
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

I dunno. I stay away from ranked races. I'm in it for fun, not ratings.

Cheers,
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aggressivej0
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Post by aggressivej0 »

sup smoky! i have a msg for you in your inbox!
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

Got it you msg and replied. :)

And would like to amend my last response..I've gotten into ranked racing. I had a bug that made me DQ every time I raced and it aggravated me. But now that seems to have cleared up. Ranked racing is pretty fun. It's more "worth it" when someone is on the line. Lots of rats out there though, as I often find myself spinning to face the wrong direction after being spun at the beginning of race. lol But then it's all the more gratifying to shut them down with a first place slap in the face. :)

Nah..I'm not competitive. :wink:

l8r
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Post by aggressivej0 »

hahaha! :lol:
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Post by Vankata »

Say sth about RX-7 plz
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Post by SmokyTyrz »

What?
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Post by Vankata »

some tips for tuning for every type of race explain it like u would explain to an idiot :roll:
I'm very interested in your opinion
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