Tuning cars... Understand cars, to win races!

2004 Need for Speed Underground 2
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AcidDog
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Tuning cars... Understand cars, to win races!

Post by AcidDog »

I would like people who have tips of tuning cars, the theory of it, not the actual settings to share their experience with everyone in this thread.

There's a lot of posting around tuning of cars and what effects performance. I would like to make a couple of points, that a lot of veterans know, but many of us don't know. Please remember that while this is a game, there are examples we can look at in real life.

REAL LIFE
1. Wide body kits and aero packages are designed with the inverse principle applied to airplanes. All aero packages are designed like upside down aircraft wings, they suck cars down onto a track. Not the other way around!

2. Wheel sizes are vital due to the grip provided. Larger wheels provide more grip and more grip will give you more traction and thus better acceleration and cornering speed. Small tyres on the other hand will effect grip and traction on the track, in essence resulting in longer wheel spin and slower pull offs. (small is bad)

3. Carbon fibre is an ultra lightweight substance that is extremely rigid in one direction. Like an egg, can't be crushed from the top and bottom but will smash if squashed from the sides. In the game, nothing major that I can guage.

To achieve "balance" (remember this word as it is important) one must remember what racing is. Racing is not the measuring of who can drive the fastest, any idiot can do that. Racing is measuring who can arrive at the finish line first. (Michael Schumacher said this.) This is not always the fastest car, even in Drag races.

You should bare in mind the following principles when tuning your cars, and deciding what body parts to install. The concept that small tyres will give you a better all round time is false. Bigger tyres give you better grip, and will allow a good driver to brake and take corners faster.

Widebody kits, may not look good but the overall aerodynamic benefits are worth it. Accept that looking good and running first aren't always the same thing.

The single most important thing that effect performance directly is Manual vs. Auto shifting. Although this is not a visual upgrade, it is the most important aspect of high speed racing.

Visual upgrades effect handling vastly, and in turn directly effect performance. Tuning your car is vital, and to squeeze the most out of your car you need top of the range visual accessories which are actually AERO PACKAGES. Things like neons and doors and hoods mean nothing, go wild, use what looks good to you.

Sitting in front a computer asking for settings for cars is somewhat pointless. It may be a start, but it is not a result. Just because Colin McCrae's settings work for him, doesn't mean that they'll work for Michael Schumacher. If you enjoy drifting corners versus driving through the clipping points you can not set the car up the same.

You must adjust your settings one at a time, feeling the changes over a full lap, quick lap, with no mistakes. If there is a gain, you keep the setting and tweek the next one. Sometimes you have to go all the way to rubbish before you arrive at the perfect setting. In other words, if it isn't working out push more forward instead of just going back to the last setting.

Things like springs must be adjusted together, but that doesn't mean they are the same... and remember, lower ride heights increase overall aerodynamic grip but decrease mechanical grip and don't allow for any camber in the road. What does this mean, if you hit a bump you go flying or almost come to a complete stop.

Downforce. Complete low downforce is not good, even for drag racing sometimes. If the downforce is too low, your tyres will spin for longer resulting in a slower pull off. 100% of drags are won on reaction time and the start off the line. (excluding mechanical failure). Find a low downforce setting that doesn't cost you too much time off the line. You are talking tens of seconds, so you must test settings often to make sure you have a true reflection.

BALANCE. Cars must be like people. They must achieve balance to excel. You must tune until you achieve the right balance for you. One part at a time. Learn this art if you want to be fast. And once you think you've learnt it all, get online and race. I promise you, you'll meet someone who'll teach you something new.

Share your advice and experience.
8)
aaronpatey
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Post by aaronpatey »

That was a great read man thanks. I really am gonna look into tuning my car up now.
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Lucky
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Post by Lucky »

Excellent post......This will be a great help towards future newbies haha.....So maybe they'll brew up some competition
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Post by boganbusman »

Geez, where do I start . . .

First of all, The size of your tires means nothing. Only the width is important (as well as tire pressure, profile and compound).
On open wheeler cars (like F1 cars) smaller diameter tires are actually better.

Secondly, downforce doesn't do anything for your car at the start of a drag race.
Downforce is only generated when you get a fair bit of speed going, and it's important to keep your car planted to the ground when you reach 200mp/h.
The only things that matter when you 'launch' are weight transfer, tire temperature, throttle/clutch application and track conditions.

So please don't give people false information.

Edit: Also, you didn't bother to mention anything about suspension settings (beside ride height), which is probably the most important part of tuning your car (excluding drag races).
I would like to see your tips on suspension setup. Should be interesting . . .
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Post by MoWGLi »

No, wheel size is important. Usually the bigger the wheel the heavier it is, which equates to a larger rotating mass, thus reducing the cars ability to rev quicker and accelerate.
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Post by boganbusman »

MoWGLi wrote:No, wheel size is important. Usually the bigger the wheel the heavier it is, which equates to a larger rotating mass, thus reducing the cars ability to rev quicker and accelerate.
Key word there is usually . . . not all wheels are heavy.
But anyway, you agree with me that AcidDog is wrong?
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Post by MoWGLi »

Some things he is on the right track with, but hes like a lot of the people on this board, his knowledge is limited.

In order to write a tuning guide you would have to go further in depth. Could point out many areas to hit, but unfortunatly, for me, its my time that is limited.
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Post by Jmac- »

boganbusman wrote:
MoWGLi wrote:No, wheel size is important. Usually the bigger the wheel the heavier it is, which equates to a larger rotating mass, thus reducing the cars ability to rev quicker and accelerate.
Key word there is usually . . . not all wheels are heavy.
But anyway, you agree with me that AcidDog is wrong?
Even if they're the same weight, a smaller diameter tire will transfer more power to the ground ...

However, the contact patch on a larger diameter tire is larger, so it would theoretically provide more grip ...
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Post by juntor »

Bigger overall wheel diameter means slower acceleration and higher speed, and vice versa. For those interested on real life details the link below is a good long read.

http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbible ... bible.html

Although AcidDog is wrong about downforce at the start of a drag (nobody is perfect). It seems though the game is lame, it does seems to affect tire grip on launch. Can anyone confirm this? In the game I tried to tune the Skyline, on the test drag strip it launched pretty well. But using it on a race trip (e.g. Bayview Bridge) The launch even at the green zone keeps on spinning the wheels even to the point that it fills up the overheat bar. Putting the downforce to max (10), seems to limit it. Really weird, but then hey its a game. Does anyone here experienced the same thing? Now I have to change all of tuning to drag having high downforce :(
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Post by MoWGLi »

juntor wrote:Bigger overall wheel diameter means slower acceleration and higher speed, and vice versa. For those interested on real life details the link below is a good long read.
Not true. It would be if you used a tire with the same size side wall as you did with the smaller wheel. When you use a bigger wheel, you usually go with a tire that has a smaller sidewall. The rotating diameter will stay the same if you go with this formula. So it is not a question of size that makes a diffrence, it is the weight.

But then you can get into the benifits of side wall size and what not. Smaller side wall will result in better handling because of less tire flex, but a tire with a higher sidewall size will result in better traction when racing because you can run lower pressures with out bashing the shiznit out of the wheel on the gorund.
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Post by Jmac- »

Even if the outer tire diameter were, in fact, larger, it would only result in a higher theoretical, mechanically-limited top speed ... Of course, it would make getting to that top speed a more difficult because it would decrease the actual amount of power transferred to the ground.

Wheel Torque (lbs) = Engine Torque (lb-ft) * Final Drive Ratio * Gear Ratio * 24 / Tire Diameter (in inches)
Speed (MPH) = RPM * Tire Diameter (in inches) / (336 * Gear Ratio * Final Drive Ratio)
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Post by juntor »

MoWGli,

If you read the link I provided and can provide a different equation to Jmac's excellent equation involving wheel diameter. Show us an equation involving wheel weight as being a factor and not the overall diameter. Then I will believe in what you said. Jmac's equation says it all.

All,

BTW I take back that the downforce affects the launch on this game. Thanks god that it is not that lame. What actually happened to me was that the gear ratio of my first was too short.
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Post by Jmac- »

The mass of the wheel and tire will decrease the amount of force applied to the ground and could easily be measured with a dynomometer by comparing a heavier steel rim with a lighter aluminum alloy rim ...

It's considered to be a drivetrain loss ... In the equation I posted, the Engine Torque is the amount of Torque measured on a dyno, which accounts for drivetrain losses ...
Last edited by Jmac- on 13 Dec 2004, 14:51, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by boganbusman »

There's no needd to keep arguing about this, it seems that we have enough facts to draw to a conclusion:

Lighter wheels are better.

The end.
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Post by ^StephaNOS^ »

Very good post!!!

Three posts made into one. Please learn how to edit your posts; thank you - T-Shine
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Post by Flameking »

Real Life

If you have rims bigger than 20s you cannot turn due to wheel radius and will scrape your inside where the tire is kept.

Ima ride on donuts 8-)
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Post by boganbusman »

You see that Mustang in my sig?
Well it has 20" billet aluminium wheels, and it turns fine.
And it is possible to have bigger than 20".

And the part where the wheel goes is called the 'wheel arch'.
And rear wheels can be as big as you want, if you fit tubs.
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Post by Om3n-PL »

my advice:



Manual..


Thank You
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Post by 909 »

large wheels? small wheels?

diameter should be a balance to the differential ratio

larger wheels have high velocity ratio: bad acceleration but excellent top speed
smaller wheels have low velocity ration: excellent acceleration but bad top speed

in this game, the tyre diameter cannot be customised, only the rim which (for the game only) doesnt make a bit of difference.
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