While we have successfully contained the plague of downvoting in Need for Speed Underground 2 Showroom, another problem has emerged. I've analyzed the user rating of cars in the showroom and I've come to some shocking facts:
* 34% of the votes in the showroom are 10s, 24% are 9s - almost 50% of cars in the showroom are perfect or near to perfect
* only 27% of cars have more than 5 votes
* average rating for all cars is 6.3 but for cars with more than 5 votes it's 8.3
* 33% of the cars have a rating higher than 9.0
What this has lead to is that cars from users with most friends get all the spotlight while cars from others are left in the dark. This has ultimately made our showroom unfriendly to most of the users and I've decided this will no longer be tolerated.
First of all I have some guidelines for voting:
Rating scale from 1-10 is there for a reason. A perfect rating scale should look something like this:
10 - Perfect
9 - Awesome
8 - Very good
7 - Good
6 - Average
5 - Below average
4 - Bad
3 - Very bad
2 - Terrible
1 - Worst of all
Now remember, there are very close to none perfect things on the world and that's how your 10 votes should be distributed. Same as 1s as there can't be many The Worst Cars around, the 10s and 1s shouldn't take more than 5% each of all your votes.
Same thing, there cannot be many awesome cars, nor terrible cars, so each should take no more than about 6-8% of your votes. There can be quite a lot of Very good and Very bad cars around, so around 12-15% of your votes to each should be ok. Most of the cars are in the scale of 4-7, so these votes should take the majority of all your votes (60-70%).
Ok now that I've discussed how the perfect voting structure should look like, let's get to the penalties for those of you misusing it. There are plenty of those that rated more than 50% of cars a 10. This clearly is upvoting especially when they give the 10 votes to the same people over and over. Let me just say that we are watching you and if you don't improve action will be taken:
* first we will wipe all your votes
* if once again you keep giving out too many 10s, your garage will be wiped (all your cars deleted) and all your votes deleted
* the third time is the last time: the two steps above will be done plus your account deactivated
If in any step we notice you giving low votes to random showroom cars just to improve your voting structure while still giving high votes to the same people, step 3 will be taken.
In conclusion, do not be afraid to give out a vote lower than 8. We will not ban anyone who votes normal between 1 and 10. Don't forget that anti-downvoting rules still apply and let me remind you all what exactly that means: giving extremely low votes (1-3) to cars that are ranked close to yours. Also having more than one account is strictily prohibited and will results in all acounts being terminated.
With these new guidelines we will wait one month to see if the statistics have improved. If after one month there will still be upvoting issues we will start fixing the votes manually (by deleting votes and users). Let me remind you that at least 3 teams were deleted so far for upvoting. This may go further.
I hope you understand the reasons why I have decided to act in this way and please do take into consideration what's written in this post.
There is a site-wide poll to vote on whether all votes in the showroom should be cleared so we can have a clean start once again. Please vote (poll is located in the right menu).
Showroom2 Voting
Showroom2 Voting
Last edited by Bojan on 13 Feb 2005, 14:47, edited 3 times in total.
I made these graphics days ago. They represent the Upvoting, Fair-voting and Upvoting situations as I see them.
____________
1. Downvoting:
Many 1s, and some other votes between 2-10 in order not to suspect so much.
____________
2. Average (1):
A good rater, may be a bit harsh but legal
____________
3. Average (2):
This one represents how a fair voter gives unconsciously a little higher ratings than the average.
____________
4. Upvoting (1):
Now we see the rating curve of a guy who only votes the cars he like, leaving apart the ugly cars. He doesnt want to rate them cause he fears he could be considered a downvoter... Apart from it is never likeable to give out low marks (hurt feelings...)
I think this is the situation of many raters, who have not bad intentions.
____________
5. Upvoting (2):
Guys who exclusively give out 10s and some 9s to their friends, in order to those guys do the same with them... Everybody win (they think)
____________
Conclusion: Try to avoid situations 1, 4 and 5, and get into something near the 2 and 3. If you rate normally the cars as Bojan purposed above, those curves will be formed naturally.
_____________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________
And now.....
Learn how to become a good voter
Yeah, you may think Im nobody to write this 'tutorial', but I am an experienced user who has rated about 2000cars in the showroom.
Edited: (Morty said me that 1878 exactly)
_________________
1. Rate many cars
-1a. Vote as many cars as possible
The showroom needs votes! And all of yours are really appreciated!! There are over 7000cars but only 2000 of them are ranked! (that means, only 2000 are rated by more than 5people). The ideal situation is to get all the cars ranked, or at least the 80%....
-1b. Use the random car feature
It is a quick way of rate random cars in the showroom. You can find it at the right border wherever you are in the site (except in the forums).
Just dedicate 10minutes/day and you will rate about 30cars!!
-1c. Dont avoid rating ugly cars
When using the random car thingy, you may find some ugly rides. Don't leave a comment saying "I dont like it, so I won't rate it". Do it. Rate it!
_________________
2. Watching the screenshot: How should I rate this car?
-2a. Enlarge the picture
That will help you to appreciate better the details of the ride you are watching
-2b. Rate the car itself
This is not a Photoshop contest, but a nfsu2 showroom. This means you shouldnt say "wow! what a background! 10points!!"
Focus in the car, parts used, colors vinyls... you decide how many points deserves each car, depending on your personal tastes (i.e. I don't care the muffler tips, but care so much the rims used)
-2c. Vote only once
Dont create multiple accounts to vote more than once a certain car.
Dont vote as both user and guest. Choose the correct one.
-2d. Leave a comment
It is always cool to find that some people have commented your cars. Do the same, and help others to improve their cars, or just say how much you love his car (or the presentation!)
____________
3. Help unknown users to get out the darkness...
-3a. Add awesome cars to your personal favourites
Try to add beautiful cars that are not very well-known in the site. In this way, those users could become more famous among the others. Refresh it each some weeks.
-3b. Visit often the favourites page of your friends to rate all the rides they have included there.
-3c. Always rate the featured car of the day.
Check the garage of the author, he could have more awesome rides.
-3d. Click often the 'Picks of the moment'.
These are a selection of the latest uploaded cars which need some votes to become ranked.
_________________
4. Showroom Teams
-4a. Joining a team is a funny way of meeting new people and become more known in the site. Your mates will rate your cars often and they will tell you tips and suggestions about how to make better cars etc.
-4b. Dont upvote your mate's rides.
You and your friends would be banned and your cars deleted: Be smart!
Remember the rule 2b.
-4c. Dont downvote/flame against guys who belong to other groups!
You could be banned!!
_________________
5. Voting in duels
-5a. Vote for the car you like the more
Dont care about who is the author of the ride.
-5b. Missing pics
Sometimes it happens that one of the pics is not shown (you see the red cross). In this case, please just ignore the duel or tell someone about the situatuion.
_________________
6. Voting in Showroom Challenge: Classics
-6a. Generally, try to follow all the general rules said above
-6b. Notice the special rules of each challenge.
- Respect the hidden identity if it is specified in the rules. This is a good way of avoiding upvoting/downvoting, apart from it is more exciting to guess who created a certain car, or which car is the one your dear friend is participating with
-6c. Pay attention to the peculiarities of each challenge.
Rate the cars considering the things that made it unique.
i.e. In the ReplicaChallenge dont care so much the beauty of the cars: The point is to exactly replicate a real life car. Everything counts though... you decide your method!
-6d. Vote all the cars in the competition.
The missing votes are counted as a 10. That means the cars you dont rate gain extra points. It happens that people often rate only the cars they like, getting the ugly cars better points as a result! Isnt it funny?
If you dont have enough time to rate them all, it is better that you dont vote any of them!
___________________
Last tip:
- Showroom brings you the possibility of find whatever you want. If you really love the Nissan Skyline, go and click the Nissan Skyline section, you will find lots of Skylines to rate. It is interesting to rate several times the same car model so that you can compare each car with the others you have seen and be more accurate in your ratings.
Have a good day.
~Dani.
____________
1. Downvoting:
Many 1s, and some other votes between 2-10 in order not to suspect so much.
____________
2. Average (1):
A good rater, may be a bit harsh but legal
____________
3. Average (2):
This one represents how a fair voter gives unconsciously a little higher ratings than the average.
____________
4. Upvoting (1):
Now we see the rating curve of a guy who only votes the cars he like, leaving apart the ugly cars. He doesnt want to rate them cause he fears he could be considered a downvoter... Apart from it is never likeable to give out low marks (hurt feelings...)
I think this is the situation of many raters, who have not bad intentions.
____________
5. Upvoting (2):
Guys who exclusively give out 10s and some 9s to their friends, in order to those guys do the same with them... Everybody win (they think)
____________
Conclusion: Try to avoid situations 1, 4 and 5, and get into something near the 2 and 3. If you rate normally the cars as Bojan purposed above, those curves will be formed naturally.
_____________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________
And now.....
Learn how to become a good voter
Yeah, you may think Im nobody to write this 'tutorial', but I am an experienced user who has rated about 2000cars in the showroom.
Edited: (Morty said me that 1878 exactly)
_________________
1. Rate many cars
-1a. Vote as many cars as possible
The showroom needs votes! And all of yours are really appreciated!! There are over 7000cars but only 2000 of them are ranked! (that means, only 2000 are rated by more than 5people). The ideal situation is to get all the cars ranked, or at least the 80%....
-1b. Use the random car feature
It is a quick way of rate random cars in the showroom. You can find it at the right border wherever you are in the site (except in the forums).
Just dedicate 10minutes/day and you will rate about 30cars!!
-1c. Dont avoid rating ugly cars
When using the random car thingy, you may find some ugly rides. Don't leave a comment saying "I dont like it, so I won't rate it". Do it. Rate it!
_________________
2. Watching the screenshot: How should I rate this car?
-2a. Enlarge the picture
That will help you to appreciate better the details of the ride you are watching
-2b. Rate the car itself
This is not a Photoshop contest, but a nfsu2 showroom. This means you shouldnt say "wow! what a background! 10points!!"
Focus in the car, parts used, colors vinyls... you decide how many points deserves each car, depending on your personal tastes (i.e. I don't care the muffler tips, but care so much the rims used)
-2c. Vote only once
Dont create multiple accounts to vote more than once a certain car.
Dont vote as both user and guest. Choose the correct one.
-2d. Leave a comment
It is always cool to find that some people have commented your cars. Do the same, and help others to improve their cars, or just say how much you love his car (or the presentation!)
____________
3. Help unknown users to get out the darkness...
-3a. Add awesome cars to your personal favourites
Try to add beautiful cars that are not very well-known in the site. In this way, those users could become more famous among the others. Refresh it each some weeks.
-3b. Visit often the favourites page of your friends to rate all the rides they have included there.
-3c. Always rate the featured car of the day.
Check the garage of the author, he could have more awesome rides.
-3d. Click often the 'Picks of the moment'.
These are a selection of the latest uploaded cars which need some votes to become ranked.
_________________
4. Showroom Teams
-4a. Joining a team is a funny way of meeting new people and become more known in the site. Your mates will rate your cars often and they will tell you tips and suggestions about how to make better cars etc.
-4b. Dont upvote your mate's rides.
You and your friends would be banned and your cars deleted: Be smart!
Remember the rule 2b.
-4c. Dont downvote/flame against guys who belong to other groups!
You could be banned!!
_________________
5. Voting in duels
-5a. Vote for the car you like the more
Dont care about who is the author of the ride.
-5b. Missing pics
Sometimes it happens that one of the pics is not shown (you see the red cross). In this case, please just ignore the duel or tell someone about the situatuion.
_________________
6. Voting in Showroom Challenge: Classics
-6a. Generally, try to follow all the general rules said above
-6b. Notice the special rules of each challenge.
- Respect the hidden identity if it is specified in the rules. This is a good way of avoiding upvoting/downvoting, apart from it is more exciting to guess who created a certain car, or which car is the one your dear friend is participating with
-6c. Pay attention to the peculiarities of each challenge.
Rate the cars considering the things that made it unique.
i.e. In the ReplicaChallenge dont care so much the beauty of the cars: The point is to exactly replicate a real life car. Everything counts though... you decide your method!
-6d. Vote all the cars in the competition.
The missing votes are counted as a 10. That means the cars you dont rate gain extra points. It happens that people often rate only the cars they like, getting the ugly cars better points as a result! Isnt it funny?
If you dont have enough time to rate them all, it is better that you dont vote any of them!
___________________
Last tip:
- Showroom brings you the possibility of find whatever you want. If you really love the Nissan Skyline, go and click the Nissan Skyline section, you will find lots of Skylines to rate. It is interesting to rate several times the same car model so that you can compare each car with the others you have seen and be more accurate in your ratings.
Have a good day.
~Dani.
Last edited by ^Sparco^ on 12 Feb 2005, 13:38, edited 5 times in total.
you can erase my votes if you want to.
i try to vote as fair as possible. i find the mistakes that ruin the overall that's the most important imo. i used to vote for the presentation too. well it's all about the car...that's why i stoped with my flashy presentation...and surpries, surprise....now my cars are found preatty simple although i biuld similar cars that i did before.
i'm thinking about leaving my team, too
edit: a very good thing would be that you only can vote if you post a comment. i know i do this from time to time but i really hate that specially my cars have like 3-4 votes and no comment.
i try to vote as fair as possible. i find the mistakes that ruin the overall that's the most important imo. i used to vote for the presentation too. well it's all about the car...that's why i stoped with my flashy presentation...and surpries, surprise....now my cars are found preatty simple although i biuld similar cars that i did before.
i'm thinking about leaving my team, too
edit: a very good thing would be that you only can vote if you post a comment. i know i do this from time to time but i really hate that specially my cars have like 3-4 votes and no comment.
I think a lot of members do that. The most known members and the guy with most friends get all the votes and other members cars never reach 6 votes and are totally forgoten. That´s why I sugest a feature with not enough votes cars. Anyway...Tyrant wrote:I car suggest a reason: I only watch cars in the top 600. Just clicking on 'best rated'.
Also some has to be done with this "team" thing. Both in the showroom but most in the challenges. You don´t have to be a magician to see whats going on.
Bojan: good move. But remember: we all vote different cause we all are different.
About cleaning all votes, no question, yes. If is not, that will be unfair to all the new cars.
Agree 100%.jemc wrote:a very good thing would be that you only can vote if you post a comment. i know i do this from time to time but i really hate that specially my cars have like 3-4 votes and no comment
Excellent stuff Bojan. Kudos to you for bringing this to light. I was flamed a while ago for bringing this up during a showroom challenge but this proves I'm not alone here. I'm sure more people believe this will improve the quality of this site and the competitions. There has been way to much friendly voting/rating going on here..
It has to end in order to give newbies a fair chance in duels for example.
Greetz DH
I was flamed a while ago for bringing this up during a showroom challenge but this proves I'm not alone here. I'm sure more people believe this will improve the quality of this site and the competitions. There has been way to much friendly voting/rating going on here.. It has to end in order to give newbies a fair chance in duels for example.
Greetz DH
@ :" Vote as many cars as possible"
Im trying to do this, but to vote for so many cars you had to have a plenty of time.
I think that most of the users dont spent more than 30-50 min. on the site (im maybe wrong) - and even if, then i think that they check their own cars to give an answer to posts they earned or check the cars/garages they like .
Its really hard to vote for every car in the showroom, cause there are more than 7000-cars : how long must a user :vote and write a comment to review at least 500 cars ????
So im voting for the cars i like , and that catch my eye and try to vote for the cars of the moment (thats really a cool idea you guys had).
And there is some other problem - i know that if this happen often this user will be deleted, but : if someone worked on a car for 2 hours, and the first vote he gets is a 4 or 5 - then i think he will go mad ! And i can understand this !
So i think that its the best as it was, to vote for thouse cars that catch eyes.
If someone dont have PS skills , then he can do good presentation in some other way, you can build cool pics with the M$-paint programm too - take a look at the audi tt that was the best car 2 days ago - this pres was simple and without stunning effects, only the car. - Some other People try to make their dream presentations -like me or MASU or even Sparco (rx-8
) as a kind of "Tribute" to the cars they like and/or Love
@: the people are giving to many 10-s:
Ok i agree - but people have their own opinions - and are sometimes like sheep (maac's MUSTANG GT
) If a member reviews 200 cars, from over 7000 , then its less that 5 % he reviewed - and its possible that he gives to 20% of the 200 he viewed a 10 - cause he likes the vinylwork or bodykit or whatever.
And for the "upvoting" - as the game gets older, the pics are getting better- a car that was a 10 - 2 months ago can today be a 8 or 7 - the PS-skills are getting better - in case , the whole Presentation style is getting better, i think thats why so many 10-s had been given
OK now i spent more than 15 min writing this - cause im not a native english-speaker
Im trying to do this, but to vote for so many cars you had to have a plenty of time.
I think that most of the users dont spent more than 30-50 min. on the site (im maybe wrong) - and even if, then i think that they check their own cars to give an answer to posts they earned or check the cars/garages they like .
Its really hard to vote for every car in the showroom, cause there are more than 7000-cars : how long must a user :vote and write a comment to review at least 500 cars ????
So im voting for the cars i like , and that catch my eye and try to vote for the cars of the moment (thats really a cool idea you guys had).
And there is some other problem - i know that if this happen often this user will be deleted, but : if someone worked on a car for 2 hours, and the first vote he gets is a 4 or 5 - then i think he will go mad ! And i can understand this !
So i think that its the best as it was, to vote for thouse cars that catch eyes.
If someone dont have PS skills , then he can do good presentation in some other way, you can build cool pics with the M$-paint programm too - take a look at the audi tt that was the best car 2 days ago - this pres was simple and without stunning effects, only the car. - Some other People try to make their dream presentations -like me or MASU or even Sparco (rx-8
) as a kind of "Tribute" to the cars they like and/or Love@: the people are giving to many 10-s:
Ok i agree - but people have their own opinions - and are sometimes like sheep (maac's MUSTANG GT
) If a member reviews 200 cars, from over 7000 , then its less that 5 % he reviewed - and its possible that he gives to 20% of the 200 he viewed a 10 - cause he likes the vinylwork or bodykit or whatever. And for the "upvoting" - as the game gets older, the pics are getting better- a car that was a 10 - 2 months ago can today be a 8 or 7 - the PS-skills are getting better - in case , the whole Presentation style is getting better, i think thats why so many 10-s had been given
OK now i spent more than 15 min writing this - cause im not a native english-speaker
that's why i mentioned in the The New Classic Challenge Rules topic. in sr2 it should be the same rule. that's the main reason i stopped with my fancy presentations. and as i mentioned my cars are considered as very simple although i didn't change my style or anything.^Sparco^ wrote: -2b. Rate the car itself
This is not a Photoshop contest, but a nfsu2 showroom. This means you shouldnt say "wow! what a background! 10points!!"
Focus in the car, parts used, colors vinyls... you decide how many points deserves each car, depending on your personal tastes (i.e. I don't care the muffler tips, but care so much the rims used)
I think I apply somewhat. I really only vote on cars that catch my eye. I had a bad experience one time giving a 7 ( accidentally rating an 8.) That made me not want to hurt people's feelings and therefore voting a little higher, especially to cars that everyone else has voted high (as was the case in the aforementioned bad experience.) Sorry. I am not sure I want to start all over again, but if it is necessary for the fairness of voting, I will. Delete votes as you see fit.
i disagree wit hthis whoel thing cause it takes away our right of opinion on other's cars. we should vote whatever we feel. 1s i find a bit unacceptable at times. but this shouldn't be made so we have to vote either 4-7 on cars. because whether you see it or not everyone has a different taste and should express their opinions freely without people telling them how they should vote.
to me your just basically saying that some of the really bad cars on this site shouldn't be voted 4s or below because "it's not fair".
so i really totally disagree with this whole new voting system thing.
to me your just basically saying that some of the really bad cars on this site shouldn't be voted 4s or below because "it's not fair".
so i really totally disagree with this whole new voting system thing.
I just want to say thank you for posting this. I think I fit in upvoter category 4, but I really want this site to remain a cool place to vote so my voting practices are going to change slightly. I will be giving out 10's a lot less generously and I will rate cars that aren't exactly my style. I'd also like to say I voted yes to the stats being reset. I honestly don't give a damn if my cars are #1 or 1,000. I know they're cool because they're exactly what I wanted to drive when I made them. I say give everyone a clean start, the cream will rise to the top, even though most of the sweeter cars and in the top ranks already. I don't mind re-voting the cars I love.
-
Guest
So its a crime if in your personal opinion and your own judgement and your own taste to rate all the awesome cars that catches your eye a 10? Abit unfair I think... Maybe to solve this problem once and forall is to remove the voting schemes... After all, the showroom2 isn't a competition, right?
The voting should be allowed if there's a special contest or something, or maybe there should be an official voting team, such as you guys!
Just saying what's in my mind... Hope too this problems would be solved.
The voting should be allowed if there's a special contest or something, or maybe there should be an official voting team, such as you guys!
Just saying what's in my mind... Hope too this problems would be solved.
Hmm....I think my current votes are mainly 8-10 range. But then again I rarely rate cars that don't immediately catch my eye (when browsing latest or where ever). I guess I'll change my habits.
I agree with full rating reset thing. In all fairness, it should be done, since the top cars are rated the "old way" there is no way any car "new way" would reach them. This will create a lot of work initially (to re-rate) but who says it has to get done in one day...
Poll somewhere about this?
I agree with full rating reset thing. In all fairness, it should be done, since the top cars are rated the "old way" there is no way any car "new way" would reach them. This will create a lot of work initially (to re-rate) but who says it has to get done in one day...
Poll somewhere about this?
I said this in my garage and I'll note it again here. It's rather simple... 10 is perfect. You think it's perfect. If you've added that car to your favourites, and it's something you wish you'd of thought of, and you make replicas to play with at home, THEN it's a 10. If you vote 10 and put in your comments "don't like the spoiler or vinyls much" then that's clearly not a 10. It's not rocket science. Running around slapping comments like "10, pls rate my <x car here>" isn't productive. Also, reducing the sizes of the garage may help alleviate these massive problems. Or perhaps having something like a top 5-6 cars for people to rate in your garage at any one time. That would give people who spend hours every night voting 10 for all 25 cars in all their friends garages time to go and give productive criticism to some other people.
ok, yesterday i started to vote more fair. i saw some guy's car in the random picture thingy and then rated hiw whole garage. my votes were betwen 6-10. i used to rate 8-10 because i made the same mistake as many guys and chicks on this site. and the main thing is that i posted a comment what i did like/didn't like. i also rated one INFRA's car a 7 because this means good. i found it good but not really good. the front bumper, the hood and something elese which i can't remember right now were just not my taste. so now, in his eyes i'm a downvoter. but i'm not. i also posted a comment what i like/dislike.
the thing is, his used to high rates. so i think this was a bit suprprising for him, because he never got a rate like 7 or so. but 7 isn't that bad...i you put this in 1-5 scale it0s still a 4. so i think many people will have to get used to it.
the thing is, his used to high rates. so i think this was a bit suprprising for him, because he never got a rate like 7 or so. but 7 isn't that bad...i you put this in 1-5 scale it0s still a 4. so i think many people will have to get used to it.