Tuning for dummies

[Bauke777]

1st and 2nd gears should match top to bottom from one gear to the other and 3,4,5th should overlap each of their following gears by several clicks. This will give you good accel but still maintain excellent top speed (which the Corolla can hold through corners...eg, I can take most turns on the Garibaldi Run at a minimum of 150 mph, some at 180-190mph).

Been a while since some1 posted here, but what does "match top to bottom from one gear to the other" mean??? I used the calculation that JMAC- posted some time ago:

Take 6th gear speed and subtract 1st gear speed (say 220 mph - 50 mph) and then divide by 5 (34) ... Add that number to each succesive gear (50, 84, 118, 152, 186, 220)

It gave me something like this (see img), but Smoky's reccomendation is sometin different? I'd like to try that one out too. Only thing is I have to get used to driving the car, cuz the speed on which I'm shifting up or down is different each time I change the gearing (but it's worth it!) Had some funny moments online in, e.g., City Hall when u go down the straight and u have a hard right, sort of shortcut, where the tables and chairs are. I used to just drop from 5th to 3rd gear to slow the car down, but b/c I changed it the car's behaviour is different. In 3 laps I crashed 3 times, guys racing me were laughing their asses off

And erm, since I'm the first to say this but still: excellent how-to-tune post Moosehead/Smoky

[SmokyTyrz]

That's about what I meant. "Match top to bottom" referred to where the top of the "dot" of the previous gear sits in relation to the bottom of the line of the next gear. In the first few gears you want the top of the "dot" to just be touching the bottom of the line in the next gear. As you get into the higher gears you want the dot to overlap a bit. What you have in this screenshot seems about right.

[Bauke777]

thnx dude!

[Morniemacar]

well why do you dont do a faq with that info, like a "ilustrated guide for use the dyno tuning" or something like that if you do that it will be so usefull for all in this place

[Bauke777]

Guys I got another question about the gearbox: got a tip from a guy online, and he told me I have "too long" gears. He told me to shorten them to increase speed in "twisty, short" circuits. Long gears were supposed to be good for eg Outerring (which I never play).

I still don't understand: I mean, if I have 3 gears to, like, 180 km/h I have 3 moments in my acceleration that I have to pause to shift up. Why make it 4? Why do short gears make you faster?

Mayb I got it all wrong I don't really understand car techniques

[SmokyTyrz]

Ya, I can see how it would be confusing. But really when you think about it, a gearshift takes a fraction of a second. It really isn't slowing you down.

What your friend is saying about the gearing is true. Longer gears for less technical, higher speed tracks and shorter gears for more complex tracks.

Gearing is the most adjusted variable in the car's setup when you're looking at different tracks. You want to pick your gearing carefully depending on the layout of the track your working with. Fortunately this is a game so you can slack a little in how thorough you are (eg. you may not need a distinct setup for each track you run, but it wouldn't hurt!).

What you want for each track is to be able to reach just under redline in top gear on the longest straight (saving a few rpms for drafting). In the turns you want the lower gears to keep you in the powerband. You *don't* want to be upshifting just before you enter your braking zones. You want to be able to wind out each gear as much as possible as you progress from turn to turn. Keeping your rpms just up into the powerband as you brake, hit your apex, and match revs for the downshift means you'll have that much more power to make exit speed for the accel out of each turn. If you're geared wrong then you find yourself shifting too much, using too many gears, shifting right before turns then downshifting back again (which means you lose pace, timing, and concentration), etc.

On the flip-side, remember that you're not obligated to use every gear. If the track you are running only requires a setup where you effectively use only 3 or 4 gears, then that's fine. Hell, when I autocross my car I rarely get much into third. You'll find these tight setups particularly useful in the StreetX tracks.

Hope that helps.

-Smokey

[Bauke777]

If you're geared wrong then you find yourself shifting too much, using too many gears, shifting right before turns then downshifting back again (which means you lose pace, timing, and concentration), etc.

Errrm, I don't have this actually... But I guess I do have long gears cuz I am rarely in 6th gear.

Hm, I'm confused. Since I finished single player, I only play circuit online. I think I like my setup as it is, but sometimes cars just creep up SO extremely fast in parts of the circuit I get the feeling they're cheating orso (which they r not). But what ur saying is I should be faster (as far as gearing is concerned that is) on the straights, than a setup w/ short gears, but I get the feeling I'm NOT. That's why I was wondering if I should shorten my gears.... guess I have to figure that out myself. Orso.

One more question: doesn't changing the gearbox affect the ECU and Turbo?

[SmokyTyrz]

Yes, because you have to tune your power curve around your gearing. Ie. if you plan to be in 3rd gear at 6000-7000 rpms through your turns then you want to keep your power in that area for the exits.

-Smokey

[Bauke777]

Hm... I have to think it over b/4 I do some mayor changes on those settings. The big downside about changing the gearing is I have to learn how to drive certain tracks w/ that new gearbox. I've changed them twice now and I noticed I'm so used to play w/ gears to slow the car down...! I actually have, like, brakingpoints on the track where to drop 2 gears orso to make it through a turn clean and at the highest speed...

I know it takes time to tune the car but I mostly just want to race when I find the time to play the game Thnx for explaining bro

[sigsegv]

Hi everybody ...

Smoky, great thread !...

Please consider me a BIG newbie both in car tuning and physics. Can you post a small table explaining what is the effect a certain setting in the tuning has on the handling of the car ?

Like: soft rear sway bars = decrease oversteer (and viceversa). It would be nice to have this for every kind of car (A/F/RWD)

Thanks.

[SmokyTyrz]

Re-read the earlier posts and you'll get that info. The table that you want is more complex than you think because each suspension setting acts as a variable, and each of those variables interact. So you're talking about a 8-dimensional matrix or something like that. I had too much fun in college to have any hope of remembering how to build something like that.

But all you really need to know in terms of heuristics is that if you slide, go softer. If the front slides (understeer) then soften the front or stiffen the rear. If the rear slides (oversteer) then soften the rear or stiffen the front. This basically applies to everything on the suspension, except for shock bound and rebound (double adjustable shocks). But you don't really need to worry about complex shock tuning for NFS.

It's all about finding a balance.


Hope that helps
-Smokey

[sigsegv]

Well, it helps. Actually I am still uncertain about what are the shocks for ... the only logical explanation(s) I found is that shocks control the response time of the springs or that shocks control how much the springs are allowed to move (correct me if I'm wrong) ...

I am having trouble with the setups for the RWD cars. I wasn't able to eliminate the oversteer, whatever settings I used, on whatever car. Because of this, the best times I got on the test track were 1.09.47 with the Celica (lvl3 ,no uniques).

Thanks,

[SmokyTyrz]

Yes that is exactly correct. Shocks control the amount of travel of the springs. It is actually much more complicated than that because the bound and rebound of the shocks interacts with the spring rates. And if the springs are allowed to "bottom out", or fully compress against the stops, then the whole system breaks down (even acting opposite how you would expect!).

For real wheel drive cars you typically want harder settings all around, with softer settings in the rear (so the drive tires can get traction) for road-racing or circuit events. Also for powerful rwd cars you have to be careful when adding the power out of a turn that you don't overstress the rear wheels into a slide.

Of course, you may also simply be over driving physics. Even a Lotus Elise will slide if you go too fast. Maybe you just need to slow down a little bit. Slow in, fast out. Usually the slower car following the better line will out-pace the faster car following a sloppy line.

Cheers,
-Smokey

[sigsegv]

So let me see if I get this straight: in the game, hard shocks = long "travel" for the springs ?
And another: what's the impact of the "hardness" of suspension over traction ? I mean, i.e. when I want more traction/adherence to a FWD, should I harden the front ?

Thanks,

[SmokyTyrz]

No...you've misunderstood... Typically, stiffer does not equal more traction (unless the car is unreasonably soft to begin with). Once you establish a tight, balanced setup that allows you to approach the car's limits you will begin to notice that the car has tendencies to oversteer, understeer, or even switch between the two (as can sometimes happen in awd cars). This is when you soften the loose ends. In some cases you may find that softening the loose end doesn't help. This means that the other end of the car is too soft. By tightening the other end you regain adjustability you were looking for in the loose end.

An example would be a CRX, which is a FWD. This car understeers like mad but softening the front sway bars, shocks, springs, etc. doesn't help a whole lot. In fact the car feels worse because with the softer parts/settings it is kind of sloppy, especially for steering. So instead you tighten the rear. Now softening the front of the CRX has more impact on the handling, and you don't need to soften nearly as much. This is why it is best to adjust in small increments, and by one variable at a time. Go to far in either direction and you end up "chasing" the balance you are looking for.

Also, hard shocks would equal less spring travel. If you stiffen the shocks you reduce how much they give (bound, or upwards motion) and how quickly they release (rebound, or downwards motion). A completely stiff shock would be the equivalent of have a solid bar connected between the chassis and the wheels, ie. no spring travel at all.

Cheers,
-Smokey

[aggressivej0]

ey bro sup? its been awhilie huh?

[SmokyTyrz]

Long live the thread.

[sigsegv]

Ok, back to NFSU2 (long time AFK) ...

Smoky, can you give me a clue on why I'm experiencing this: I'm currently running an Eclipse and in some situations (i.e. trying to avoid a NPC car on Outer Ring) the car has the tendency to balance left-right immediately after making a sudden move with the wheel. It's almost impossible to balance it again. I have to mention that sway bars are set at more than 3/4 and most of the settings are quite stiff.

Thanks again
sigsegv
--
Process killed by signal 11

[BeAnTaws]

heh this is a niiiceee thread you got here. ive got a question.
how do you think i could tune a fwd car for circuit racing(if i cant use a hatchback ill pop)

[SmokyTyrz]

Sigsegv...sounds like you have two problems: the settings may be too stiff. Without any give in the suspension geometry you basically lose all ability to recover. Ie..more aggressive settings are less forgiving. Remember when you were a kid and driving go karts and one day you lost control? You were pretty much just along for the ride at that point. There wasn't much you can do with that spin because karts are set up so tightly. Same deal here. Some cars react well to tight setups, but in most cases it also means there is much less room for error.

Which leads me to my second thought: You may simply be trying to take the corners too fast. Doing so may make the car unstable and unable to settle for the straight. So you end up chasing the steering when you should be pushing through your exit speed. Maybe slow it down a bit first and see what happens. Use you braking zone, scrub off all the speed before the turn, then ease back on the gas coming out of the apex. You may even want to find out how slow you must be going through a turn to not experience your loss of control. That will give you a read on whether you're just driving too fast, or if you need to make a setup change.

Good luck,

[sigsegv]

Smoky,

I'm certainly trying to go as fast as I can

Basically, I noticed the behavior I described on AWD cars (especially Skyline). To be more specific: when running high speed - almost 300, since Outer Ring alows that - and making a quick S shape turn to avoid some NPC car on the road, my car started to balance left-right.

I was feeling this in the wheel - I was no longer controlling properly the direction - and most important, the car was not feeling like loosing traction but more like simply balancing on it's suspensions. That's why I asked - it seemed stupid that a car with stiff sway bars could balance, it's more probable that it would just loose traction ...

Am I wrong ?

Regards,
--
Process killed by signal 11

[SmokyTyrz]

Play with the shocks. If your springs are where you want them then you can use the shocks to determine how quickly the car settles after a maneauver.

However, if you're only feeling a temporary loss of balance but not losing control then maybe it's not too much to bother adjusting out. If you can handle it, then it may just be a characteristic of the car. But if it bothers you then try adjusting the shocks to tune it out.

l8r

[apa]

Does anyone have tips for tuning the Audi TT for circuit? In stock configuration it understeers really bad, though I think I've got used to it On the test track I get times in 1:26-1:28 range and below is my setup:

Suspension
Lowering, Front: -3.71, Rear: -3.71
Springs, Front: 8.45, Rear: 8.45
Shocks, Front: 9.03, Rear: 9.03
Sway bar, Front: 7.92, Rear: 8.27
Steering ratio: 1.18

Drivetrain: 3.93

Aerodynamics:
Downforce, Front: 10, Rear: 8.71

Tires & Brakes:
Tire grip, Front: 6.6, Rear: 6.2

ECU: (see explanation below)
| 0% | 25% | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% | 95% | 90% |

Turbo:
| 0% | 0% | 10% | 60% | 95% | 100% | 90% | 60% | 10% |

The ECU and Turbo numbers are approximations how much of the red area is covered by the adjustable blue area for each RPM range. Eg. if the value for a range was 50%, the tuning dot would be at half of the adjustable area. Am I making any sense here?-)

Should I be able to tune the gearbox for each gear separately in circuit mode? I have only the single drive train number for tuning between top speed and acceleration. I haven't unlocked all level 3 upgrades yet.

Some of the suspension settings may seem strange because the rear is stiffer but I tried to make the car lose the massive understeering... Any help is appreciated!

[apa]

The dyno numbers are here:
0-60: 3.95 s, 0-100: 7.55 s
Top speed: 338 km/h
Max torque: 494.5 Nm @ 5900 RPM
Max power: 332.2 kW @ 7100 RPM